Behavioral health marketers know that outspending private equity-backed competitors isn't an option. But that doesn't mean conceding the market. In this episode, Ray Mina sits down with Mari Considine and Cari Burke of Acenda Integrated Health, to explore how they rebuilt their marketing function into a cross-functional growth engine. They dig into how Acenda shifted from brochures and local referrals to a data-driven, experience-obsessed strategy, why tying every KPI to business outcomes unlocked buy-in that marketing metrics alone never could, and how their Brand Experience Design Lab is closing the gaps between digital promise and in-person reality.
💡 Episode Summary
Behavioral health marketers know that outspending private equity-backed competitors isn't an option. But that doesn't mean conceding the market. In this episode, Ray Mina sits down with Mari Considine and Cari Burke of Acenda Integrated Health, to explore how they rebuilt their marketing function into a cross-functional growth engine. They dig into how Acenda shifted from brochures and local referrals to a data-driven, experience-obsessed strategy, why tying every KPI to business outcomes unlocked buy-in that marketing metrics alone never could, and how their Brand Experience Design Lab is closing the gaps between digital promise and in-person reality.
👉 Check out the actionable guide based on this episode
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⏱️ Episode Timestamps
(01:46) - Acenda Integrated Health and the shifting behavioral health landscape
(04:15) - Pre-COVID marketing vs. today: From brochures to digital
(09:29) - Competing without outspending: Content, creativity, and nimbleness
(14:58) - Building the Brand Experience Design Lab: Cross-functional buy-in
(21:42) - What the brand lab revealed: Patient journey gaps and internal referrals
(36:54) - Building a playbook: How to start your own brand experience program
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💬 Quotes
“One of the shifts that Cari and I really made, and it took a very long time, was to take all of our KPIs, all of our metrics, and tie them to our strategic plan and individual business goals of the organization. It helped us with finance, so we were able to get some yes’s on some things we might not have gotten before. Because again, we could show the return. But not just the return that marketing likes to see, because again, we were showing that. We just weren't showing it in the way that our business partners, our finance partners like to see. It's about making sure that we're speaking the right language because our language just falls flat with our business partners at the organization. We really formalized what thought leadership looks like at Acenda. And the goal is to get our clinicians to participate in our marketing campaign language, in our blogs, in our content, internal, external, getting them to showcase their expertise on external websites and at conferences.” – Mari Considine
“ Our data is only as good as what it's doing to for the programs. We could say, We got this many impressions and this many clicks and this many people on our website. But, if that doesn't result in people using the program services and booking those appointments and becoming a patient, it was all for nothing. I think that's where we are going to be able to see the results, based on the efforts that are going to be put forth, by seeing that increase across the board.” – Cari Burke
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🔗 Links
Connect with Mari Considine on LinkedIn
Connect with Cari Burke on LinkedIn
Connect with Ray Mina on LinkedIn
Learn more about Caspian Studios
[00:00:00] Cari Burke: Our data's only as good as, you know, what it's doing to, for the, the programs. You know, we could say we got this many impressions and this many clicks and you know, this many people on our website, but if that doesn't result in people using the, the program services and, and, and booking those appointments and becoming a patient, you know, it, it was all for nothing.
[00:00:29] Cari Burke: And so I think that's where we are gonna be able to see the results based on the efforts that are gonna be put forth, um, by seeing that increased across the board.
[00:00:38] Ray Mina: As a B2B SaaS marketer, I am really used to highly competitive markets and environments. And sometimes in healthcare it's a very collegial atmosphere.
[00:00:46] Ray Mina: People are helping patients and consumers, but there is still a competition. And when you look at the behavioral health space, especially ramping up during COVID, I, there's a lot of investment from private equity and venture into that behavioral health market. And my guest today, instead of responding by outspending and, and probably didn't have the capacity to outspend some of that investment driven part of the market.
[00:01:10] Ray Mina: Acenda rebuilt the marketing organization into truly a cross-functional growth engine, and I think this conversation is really gonna be the epitome in 2026. Of doing more with less. How do we actually figure out how to be creative, especially if we can't match the budgets of some of our competition, or we're locked in and we can't get new budget.
[00:01:30] Ray Mina: So today I'm joined with Mari Considine. She's the Chief marketing and communications Officer, and Cari Burke is the Associate Vice President of Brand Engagement and they're both at as senda Integrated Health. Thanks for being on the podcast with me.
[00:01:43] Mari Considine: Thank you. Thank you so much for having us, Ray.
[00:01:45] Mari Considine: We're happy to be here.
[00:01:46] Ray Mina: Mari, I love to give context to our listeners because they may not know what Acenda does in the market. Could you just give us a, a perspective on, on how you help consumers and patients?
[00:01:57] Mari Considine: Yeah, absolutely. So we are Acenda Integrated Health. We are located in New Jersey. We serve the entire state.
[00:02:02] Mari Considine: We're multi-site. We are largely behavioral health. We also offer some maternal health services as well as there's still some social services that we offer as for the most part, but it's pretty much behavioral health, mental health services and recovery services, and that's really what me and my team.
[00:02:20] Mari Considine: Certainly are working on, and as you mentioned, you know, things have really shifted for us and our market has changed and our old competitors, you know, back maybe, you know, 7, 8, 10 years ago aren't who our competitors are today. And so when we talk about who we are and what we do, you know, we really feel that we are, you know, behavioral health.
[00:02:42] Mari Considine: Mental health services, but we have a community focus and we do things a little bit differently. And so after COVID and during COVID, a lot of PE backed behavioral mental health services came to be and certainly obviously the rise of telehealth. And so for us that really, you know, got us thinking like, how are we going to differentiate ourselves and how are we even going to compete in that space?
[00:03:06] Mari Considine: I think the first inkling that we had new competition was when we were looking at some of our. Google keywords and how expensive things were. All of a sudden it was almost like an overnight shift. And so, you know, we really knew we had to position ourselves differently and we had to do things differently in order to compete in the market.
[00:03:23] Mari Considine: That was, was relatively new to us because prior to COVID we really didn't have a lot of big budget competition. It was mostly more local competition, you know. We're really more focused on a smaller geographic area than even we are now. And we have very limited telehealth services. So, you know, we, we definitely had to take some new approaches and it's still a work in progress.
[00:03:44] Mari Considine: And you know, that's the one thing I think that's exciting about what we do is it's never done. And so we're excited to share a little bit about what we've been doing. But you know, all of that said, we are definitely still and continue to be a work in progress as we kind of move through this ship.
[00:04:00] Ray Mina: We're gonna talk a lot bit about that shift because you, you just, you just clearly summed it up about how much it's changed for you in the last 78 years.
[00:04:09] Ray Mina: I guess on two dimensions, maybe I'll start with you, Mari, and then I'll a ask you to weigh in. Cari. If we rewind, like pre COVID, what is that now? Six years ago, what did marketing, what did marketing look like for you then? Like, what was, what was marketing for at Accenda?
[00:04:25] Mari Considine: We were doing a lot of direct mail.
[00:04:27] Mari Considine: I mean, we were digital. We definitely had some digital, I would say, you know, we were nowhere near where we are now in terms of digital, but marketing, you know, we had some digital, we had some email, but we were really still very paper focused 'cause we were very local and so a lot of our referrals came through, you know, other avenues.
[00:04:45] Mari Considine: So we would have brochures and physician's offices and, you know. Health systems and, you know, those types of things. And so we did a lot of direct mail as well. But, you know, it was very different. It was, you know, a lot more catering to a, a very local market. And at that time we were actually smaller. So pre COVID, you know, we, we decided, you know.
[00:05:07] Mari Considine: We actually were part of a merger, which we actually grew quite significantly right before COVID happened. So, you know, we had grown, we had changed, and then we had this new shift.
[00:05:19] Ray Mina: This feels like a meme of the office from, you know, 2000, 2020 versus the office in a marketing, healthcare marketing in 2026.
[00:05:26] Ray Mina: Cari Mari mentioned that one of the things that you saw. Was when, when you started to see competition, was the, the rise in cost for, for Google ads, like, you know, cost per it, but back then, like what were the metrics that defined success for you? Like how did you measure that? You know, when in a world of paper where it's a lot of brochures and direct mail, how did you define that?
[00:05:51] Ray Mina: Like marketing was successful for Acenda?
[00:05:54] Cari Burke: I guess a little history. You know, I've been with the departments, what year are we in now? Only about four years. And so I actually came from direct service within the same organization. And so when Mari speaks about, you know, how we did the marketing and, and pushed things out, you know, I was one of those coming to the office and saying, what do you have that I can hand out to people?
[00:06:16] Cari Burke: But knowing, you know what I know now. I don't know what happened when I gave that paper, you know? And that's, that was the problem and still is the problem when we have, you know, requests coming through asking for old school ways of, of marketing. And so, you know, there's no way to, to track what happens when you are, you know, just giving them something in hand, um, or if a a, a poster's up in an office.
[00:06:42] Cari Burke: And so, you know, the digital way has really been able to give us that. That data and that we can then tell the programs that we're working with and the the service lines, Hey, this is where people are, are seeing your, your information and what's happening with it. So it helps us to tell that story.
[00:07:03] Ray Mina: Yeah.
[00:07:03] Ray Mina: Mari, you mentioned, you mentioned that like one of the FII, my question is gonna be around like those, those competitors that entered w with, with funding from p back groups than venture back groups that had a lot more budget. One of the things you mentioned is that like they could just outcompete you on Google.
[00:07:19] Ray Mina: They had a lot of money to throw at it. What were some of the other things that they could do that were, that some things you couldn't do because of the budget they had?
[00:07:27] Mari Considine: Oh, I mean, national recognition, you know? Mm-hmm. So a lot of these are, you know, they just have different recognition than we do. And so I think, you know, one of the things for us has really been focused on what makes us different.
[00:07:40] Mari Considine: And so, you know, you may hear the same, it may, you knowm name any names, but you know, you, you may be familiar with them. But we are, we are here for you. We've always been here for you. And you know, I guess our approach is a little bit more community based. I think looking at like the pre, you know, the old competition versus now.
[00:08:01] Mari Considine: And you know, I guess even to tie on your last question, like we've, we were a very small department then too, so. But when we were tracking metrics, we might not have even been like tracking that month. That particular, you know, we might not have even had an opportunity to look on Google Analytics that month.
[00:08:16] Mari Considine: We were very small, very lean team, and oftentimes we had people that didn't, that came in with very little experience, but instead of trying to compete, we are not apples to apples. And so I think that's really been how we've been looking at things and finding ways that we can compete and that we can do better.
[00:08:31] Mari Considine: And so the first way was really with some content. And not content the same way that other, you know, behavioral health and mental health providers were doing it. And so it wasn't about talking about general things like anxiety and stress. It was really these more kind of, you know, very unique approaches and very unique things.
[00:08:51] Mari Considine: And some of that started to get shared very broadly and that was really kind of the start of, wait, we can do things a little bit differently. Mm-hmm. There are some areas that we can excel and there are some areas for us to compete. So we've gotta stop looking at this whole budget thing and really start looking at the creative approaches that we can have and the the ways that we could do things differently.
[00:09:11] Mari Considine: We don't have a lot of red tape. We don't have a lot of infrastructure and so we are able to do things on the fly. And so, you know, in many ways, you know, we're able to jump on trending content and do things that other larger organizations, maybe there's a little bit more red tape and, and they need a little bit more time to produce that content.
[00:09:29] Mari Considine: And so that's kind of really how it started. We stopped looking at the old way and really started looking at like different ways for us to compete. And so in the early days, it was just the same infrastructure of our department just doing things a little bit different, but we knew that that wasn't going to work and that wasn't going to last.
[00:09:45] Mari Considine: And so that's kind of where we started to make some really big shifts in how we looked at ourselves as a department and how we really defined who we are and, and, and really what we're doing in the space, which again. Is very different than, you know, what we did, you know, seven years ago when we were focused on service lines.
[00:10:03] Mari Considine: Brochures, referral sources. We are still very much about, you know, working with referral partners and having partnerships, but we look at it differently. I think we're looking at it less as referral and more as partnership. And because of that, we're not, you know, going in and, and showcasing a brochure, oh, here's our latest brochure.
[00:10:22] Mari Considine: We're really talking more about partners, and we're talking about how can we work with you to be that referral source and how can we be that partner to support what you're doing when you are. Patients need mental health services or when your patients are needing maternal health services, how you know, can we be that partner for you?
[00:10:39] Mari Considine: And less of the, here's a brochure, here's what we do. Here's a poster, which was really the old approach, which did honestly work back in the day, but certainly isn't gonna work. Now.
[00:10:49] Ray Mina: One thing you've shared with us is about experience. Like one of the things that you can do differently because you are nimble, is that you can win on experience.
[00:10:58] Ray Mina: Can, can you talk to me a little bit about what that means for you at asce?
[00:11:02] Mari Considine: One of the newest things that I think is really exciting that we're really focused on is that brand experience, and we have now what's called our Brand Design Experience lab, and it is a cross-departmental team. And so we have clinicians, we have administrators, we have, I mean.
[00:11:22] Mari Considine: People from all, we have recovery staff. We have staff from our outpatient counseling centers. We have urgent care centers. We have staff from our urgent care centers, hr, finance. We've created it this cross-departmental brand experience lab. We're really, really building that experience. To make it the very best that it can be.
[00:11:41] Mari Considine: And so when somebody walks through our doors, we're really looking to do something that's very different than going to one of our competitors or when they're joining us on telehealth, something that's very different from the first touch point all the way up to that appointment. And you know, moving forward we really wanna build that experience in a very intentional way.
[00:12:00] Mari Considine: And so the brand lab. Is our kind of I I, I think so far the most successful way of doing it because everybody is contributing. So we're very cross-departmental. We're not just setting this experience and then having our urgent care center say, well, we can't do that, or That's not going to work. Here's actually.
[00:12:17] Mari Considine: A better way. We're all working together to develop that and to, to make sure that our brand experience and what people experience as a patient client of as senda is so much better than what they've gotten elsewhere. And so maybe they did go to one of our competitors and didn't have a great experience.
[00:12:34] Mari Considine: We wanna make sure when they land with us, that it really is the very best experience. So there's a lot of different things that we're doing, but I would say, I think for me, the most exciting one is the brand lab. Because we're really piloting new things, trying new things, and we're building them, I think, with the right people.
[00:12:50] Mari Considine: And I think that's what makes all the difference and that's what makes that success point work. It's not top down
[00:12:56] Cari Burke: something unique about our team. Uh, you know, not only did I come from working directly with clients within this space and this, this organization, you know, been here 15 years now, so is another team member and she, she leads our comms.
[00:13:10] Cari Burke: Side of the, the team. But I think having that experience, direct experience, working with the clients that we serve, um, and bringing that to, you know, into perspective of when we're, we're thinking about, you know, marketing campaigns and what the experience looks like for clients that are looking for care.
[00:13:31] Cari Burke: And then all the way to, you know. Deciding we wanna go with as senda and getting their care through us, you know, has really, I think, played a, a unique role in the, you know, as a big plus, not only for our team, but for, you know, the agency as a whole. And, you know, obviously those that we, we serve. Um. In addition, you know, just bringing that collaborative effort across the, the agency, you know, whether it be through the brand lab or you know, just in as, as wherever we can.
[00:13:59] Cari Burke: Making sure that we can do it in a collaborative way because we're all here for the same reason. We are here to, to help, you know, make, make people's lives better and, you know, have healthy outcomes. And so, you know, I think that's, that, that experience is, is felt both through. The clients that we serve, but then also through our staff members.
[00:14:18] Ray Mina: This is such a trend in healthcare where I see marketing leaders more and more, even taking the chief Experience officer title along with the CMO title, because that like delivering outcomes is so important to people. I, I love the, it's called the Brand Experience Design lab. Is that, is that, yeah. I love that as a concept.
[00:14:38] Ray Mina: We do. We do things like tiger teams where we'll bring together. A team to accelerate product development so we can meet customers where they're at. How did you go about getting buy-in? 'cause that's a highly cross-functional, Hey, I'm busy. I've got all this other stuff over here. Don't ask me to create another priority.
[00:14:54] Ray Mina: How'd you get buy-in for something like that across your cross-functional partners?
[00:14:58] Mari Considine: It is part of our strategic plan, so we have tied everything we do. That's the other thing that we've made to, again, get more buy-in. In our department. We've tied every KPI, every outcome to our strategic plan into business goals.
[00:15:14] Mari Considine: And so we used to be very proud of all these KPIs. Some of them were vanity, some of them not, you know, very, you know, hard, solid metrics. But nobody understood them. And I think nobody understood what they brought to the business. And so we're out there trying to get additional budget for things. 'cause if we do X, Y, and Z, you know we're gonna be able to do this.
[00:15:37] Mari Considine: Well, what your numbers show, you know? That's great. You know, we, we love that that many people clicked on something. We love that, you know, and again, it just didn't have that focus to the business. And so one of the shifts that Cari and I really made, and it took a very long time. Was to take all of our KPIs, all of our metrics and tie them to our strategic plan and individual business goals of the organization.
[00:16:01] Mari Considine: And so not only did that make the shift, it helped us with finance. And so, you know, we were able to get some yeses on some things we might not have gotten before because again, we could show. The return, but not just the return that marketing likes to see. Because again, we were showing that we just weren't showing it in the way that our business partners, our finance partners like to see.
[00:16:23] Mari Considine: And so that really helps support that. The brands lab is directly part of our strategic plan. And so I sit on our executive team and you know, we have discussed like, you know, these are the things that are important for our organization to drive us forward. So anything tied to our strategic plan is. Top priority.
[00:16:43] Mari Considine: And so Cari and I, I mean this is like a secret. These were our goals for this year before our new strategic plan launched, but we are able to now get that buy-in through something that already exists. And so that's been very helpful for us. But again, it is a lot about education. It's about making sure that we're speaking the right language because our language just falls flat with our business partners at the organization.
[00:17:10] Mari Considine: And so, you know, again, these are like metrics that we all talk about as marketers, but you know, they're not hearing them the same way as we're talking about. So we're like really super excited about a campaign and it's like, okay, well how's that tie to what we're trying to do this year? And you know, unless we can tie it to actual dollars.
[00:17:27] Mari Considine: Or tie it to an actual business outcome, it, it's just falling on deaf ears. And so we did a lot of work to be able to do that. And so we've been able to get much more buy-in and much more budget for those things that are, that are helping to move us forward. And that's been very, very important. And then the other one is our Acenda A Perspectives, which is our thought leadership program.
[00:17:48] Mari Considine: We really formalize what thought leadership looks like at asce, and the goal is to get our clinicians to participate in our. Marketing campaign language in our blogs, in our content, internal, external, getting them to, you know, showcase their expertise on external websites and at conferences. And again, I think if we didn't show why that is important from a business standpoint, we wouldn't have had the success that we've had since we've launched this.
[00:18:16] Mari Considine: And we've been very excited at the response. And you know, again. It's, it's about getting people here. And so it's about building reputation. It's about building that trust and you know, getting them to understand it because it's tied to our plan and it's tied to our business goals, has really been very effective for us and has been why I think we've been successful on that initiative as well.
[00:18:38] Mari Considine: And so these are two things that I think if we would've launched. Two years ago would've fallen flat. Completely flat, and they would've been looked at as kind of fun projects, vanity projects at this point, you know, the way that we've approached it, the way we've pitched them, the way we have budget for them, it's not about fun, it's about, you know, we can make it fun 'cause Cari and I are fun people, but it's really about, you know, being tied to the business goals and tied to getting people in our care.
[00:19:07] Mari Considine: And so we've been able to kind of, again, make that shift. And so it has helped with buy-in.
[00:19:12] Cari Burke: I think we've been fortunate also of, of having the right people in on the committees that, you know, just as luck would have it, is actually like they're, where they are seeing some issues across the, the organization, you know, is, is in line with what we have been seeing.
[00:19:28] Cari Burke: And so, you know, it, it's not coming from. Our team, uh, and like, oh, they see it this way and they, you know, so it's not a us first as them, which we never want it to be. We are here, you know, as a, as a team and we really, you know, whole-heartedly feel that way. But, you know, when we have our staff members that oversee programs and that are part of HR and are part of facilities.
[00:19:54] Cari Burke: Our, our IT department, we have people from all across the agency. And being able to have similar feedback points Yeah. Was really eye-opening, but in, in a good way. And so I think that the buy-in is because we are already all on the same page. And so now let's, now let's try to problem solve and let's see where we can make things better for our team members.
[00:20:17] Cari Burke: But then, you know, in turn, you know, the, the experience overall will be, you know, a win-win.
[00:20:24] Ray Mina: This is a theme I've seen is that the most successful organizations make it not a marketing problem or a marketing measure. They make it a business outcome and a business measure. So kudos for you. It seems so simple, right?
[00:20:36] Ray Mina: But it's like we all, we often overlook that, and then it's like marketing's asking, you know, how many times I've heard it? Marketing's asking for this thing. Like, why should I prior? Well, if it's actually a thing for the business, it's a little bit easier. Who's part of the brand? Like just not knowing I'm on the outside.
[00:20:53] Ray Mina: Who's part of that brand experience design lab? Like what are the other cross-functional stakeholders that you have as part of that group?
[00:21:01] Mari Considine: Facilities, it, hr, our clinicians, like our, our director of our outpatient, the person who runs one of our mental health urgent care centers. We have. Access center. Yep.
[00:21:15] Mari Considine: Or, or access centers or call center.
[00:21:18] Ray Mina: This is a deep partnership across like when, when I hear clinicians in hr, this is like, yeah, this is not just marketing and it, this is something really meaningful.
[00:21:26] Mari Considine: Yep.
[00:21:27] Ray Mina: What have you learned so far, like by, by doing this work together, like thinking like, 'cause we're all here about.
[00:21:33] Ray Mina: Patient outcomes and like really like doing something. What have you learned about the patient journey? Like what are the things that you didn't expect to find out that the organization has learned?
[00:21:42] Mari Considine: One of the things that I think was surprising to me was that we have always prioritized a welcome for our patients' clients.
[00:21:54] Mari Considine: External, but as we've grown, we maybe have not prioritized that same welcome for our employees. And so we're located all over the state and we have a headquarters here in, in Glassboro, but we have, you know, clinicians, providers that are all over the state. And so we were learning that like headquarters wasn't very welcoming to people who, to employees when it's not where they work from day to day.
[00:22:19] Mari Considine: We work here like this is, we work at headquarters, so we're not really looking at it to be welcoming. We wanna talk about how can we make it more welcoming for external partners, but also learning how can we make things more welcoming for our internal partners, and how can we make our brand experience even better for our clinicians and our internal partners?
[00:22:38] Mari Considine: Because again, you know, we're competing, you know. They could leave us to go work for one of those, you know, competitors. And so what can we do to help make that experience better? And so bringing that in as part of the brand lab, I think has been a very positive experience. But also just even knowing that, you know, the things that can confuse us as non clinic.
[00:23:00] Mari Considine: Are also confusing some of our clinicians. And so, you know, working on how we can have better handoffs in terms of internal referrals because we are integrated health. So, you know, the goal is to bring somebody in through one service line and, you know, well you could be, you know, it looks like three other things that we offer.
[00:23:19] Mari Considine: You could, you know. Qualify for or might help support your journey, but making that seamless. And we're knowing that that's not as seamless as we think it is. And so, you know, those are the things that we really need that cross-departmental, cross-functional partnership in order to do. Yet that can't be a marketing initiatives because we, nobody wants to hear from marketing about, you know, even though we care deeply about the patient journey when marketing says it, I think it sounds different.
[00:23:46] Mari Considine: But we want this to be a team. And so we know that internal piece, that internal referral piece is something that we have to work on. Cari's actually leading that part of the brand lab. But again, that is from feedback, not from our feedback. That's from feedback from, you know, this, this great, they submitted a anonymous.
[00:24:06] Mari Considine: Brand experience gap survey. And what was interesting is everybody completed it almost the same way. There were four things that came out that, you know, where our experience gaps were. And almost everybody saw those four things. And so that's really where, where we're working and, and that's, you know, we're gonna see impact right away.
[00:24:25] Mari Considine: I think when we problem solve those things, because again, it was pretty, you know. Cohesive that these are the four things we need to work on. And one of them was the internal referrals. And so, you know, we think it's a process that's working, but we don't know 'cause we're not referring and it's not really our process.
[00:24:41] Mari Considine: But now that we're part of brand, which was another shift, we changed our whole department from being the marketing and comms team to the brand marketing and engagement team to really take more ownership over that brand experience. And so now you know, it's us trying to. You know, work with our partners, not take over what they do, but work with our partners again to, you know, establish that really high quality brand experience.
[00:25:05] Ray Mina: What are the, some of the other like decisions you've been able to influence out of, out of this brand experience Design lab,
[00:25:13] Cari Burke: I think. We have some direction now of some of the things that 'cause it is still in its infancy. You know, we have determines like kind of the four areas that we're gonna be focusing on, who the players are and you know, some of the tools that can be used to, to, to get their part of their work stream started.
[00:25:32] Cari Burke: So I think, you know, it's providing some of that direction for the teams and you know, because there are so many things that kind of came up that were. Similar in response, almost exact in a lot of cases. It, you know, that that's where we, you know, had the surprise of like, wow, you know, yes, it's negative because there's some things that are eye popping, like, ooh, these are the four top things, and we all agree on 'em, unanim unanimously, separately.
[00:26:02] Cari Burke: Uh, but, you know, so that made the, the, the onset. An easy thing. And so now being able to say like, okay, these are the things we wanna tackle, because we know that by tackling these four areas to, to begin with, it's going to make the, the experience for our, our, you know, potential patients and clients journey.
[00:26:22] Cari Burke: You know, mu much better because we already see that. People come to Acenda. We are trusted. We are, we do have, um, you know, we've been around collectively between the, the agencies that came together over 50 years. And so, you know, why the, the landscape is changing and the compe competition is so vast now.
[00:26:45] Cari Burke: Um, you know, we, we do have that, you know. Grassroots we're, we're here. But you know, we, there's still a lot of work to do because of the competition, and so we don't want it to only be the grassroots we wanna be. You know, therefore all the new patients as well who haven't heard of us or maybe never needed us before.
[00:27:06] Cari Burke: Um, and so, you know, with that, that reputation and the, and the trust and that experience that people have had by working with us and some of these, these gaps that we're seeing, you know, it's just gonna make it even, you know, a, a better experience for people and one that they're gonna tell somebody about so that the next person looking will choose us.
[00:27:26] Ray Mina: It sounds like you have really clear signal on the direction that the org is going, which you've described. How do you think you'll know that you were successful 12 months from now? Like how, how do you think that will show up?
[00:27:37] Cari Burke: Well, I think visually, you know, we'll be able to see it because we are gonna have, you know, some upgrades to the, the spaces where, you know, both our staff sit cool, but also where clients come in and that they will feel.
[00:27:50] Cari Burke: I'm in the right place. The moment they pull into the parking lot, the moment they open the door, uh, you know, and so I think that's one thing you'll, you'll be able to see and feel it right away. Our data's only as good as, you know, what it's doing to, for the, the programs. Uh, you know, we could say we got this many impressions and this many clicks and you know, this many people on our website, but if that doesn't result in people using the, the program services and, and, and booking those appointments and becoming a patient.
[00:28:19] Cari Burke: It was all for nothing. And so I think that's where we are gonna be able to see the results based on the efforts that are gonna be put forth. Um, by seeing that increase across the board.
[00:28:29] Ray Mina: My brain didn't immediately go to experience of like, what is the actual environment like? But that's so, that's such a big part of like my experience when I go to like a very modern, like the energy feels right, the design feels right.
[00:28:42] Ray Mina: I feel really comfortable there. What, why will that be a strategic advantage for you over competition? Like how, how, how can you do this a little bit differently than someone who also has budget to like invest here as well?
[00:28:56] Mari Considine: Yeah. 'cause I think we're doing things a little bit more intentional, so we're not just creating, like, we're not hiring a designer to create a beautiful space.
[00:29:03] Mari Considine: Right. We are really focused on, you know, one of the things that we did last year was we revisited our organizational values and we had our staff really, you know, contribute to what that looks like. And so we, we refreshed our values, we modernized our values, and we've seen like. That has been such a focus of so much that we have been doing, and so how can we infuse those values in our locations?
[00:29:28] Mari Considine: And so again, where maybe a big budget place might hire a decorator and kind of, you know, create a space that's beautiful, we're gonna be much more intentional about what we're doing and making it really asce a really about what our values are. But again, that's one piece of it. But one of the most basic things is our phone system, right?
[00:29:47] Mari Considine: Like marketing, as marketers, we always, we were like, we need to, we really wish we could do, make some shifts to our phone system and we haven't been able to, then we don't own that area. But again, when we got our feedback, that was not us saying that we needed to make some changes to our phone system. It was our, our staff that were saying it.
[00:30:05] Mari Considine: And so there are certain places that there that create some friction. And so we know in behavioral health. As much as we are pushing that digital front door, people want to call and they want to make that phone call and they want to talk to a human. And you can still do that at asce. And so we just wanna make sure that is the best experience when you do pick up the phone.
[00:30:25] Mari Considine: And so that's another area that we're exploring. But again, the, for years, the focus and we are actually launching a new website today, which is quite weird, but you know, the focus has been on that digital front door and getting people in through online. I mean, the, the numbers tell us that that's still not how people are making most of their appointments.
[00:30:43] Mari Considine: And so we really wanna make sure that when they call our experience is positive. And, you know, there are some ways that we're gonna have, you know, AI support and all of that, but making sure that it's still like this person to person experience that is going to make you say, you know what, yes, I'm ready.
[00:31:02] Mari Considine: I, I wanna make this appointment. And, you know, there were some things about our phone system that were. Creating some friction. And so that's, you know, one area that we're also going to be, you know, working on, it's gonna be a full, like, absolute Acenda experience when we're done. But that's how we can compete, right?
[00:31:20] Mari Considine: We're really going to use our user data. We know how people, when they call, we know where they're getting stuck, you know, to make those changes. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's going to be more intentional, I think, than some of our competition is making it. And now as we're moving into this. New AI world, making sure that, you know, we're adapting again so we can compete and, and we look at AI a little bit as, oh, finally this might be a, an area that we actually can compete a little bit more.
[00:31:49] Mari Considine: And so, you know, we're putting a lot of our efforts, certainly into a lot more of our content. You know, again, new website, much more comprehensive FAQs, things like that, that are really speaking, you know, towards the person asking the questions. On ai, really talking to two internets, talking to the Google Searchers and talking to the AI searchers.
[00:32:11] Mari Considine: And even next month we'll be talking to the TikTok Searchers 'cause we'll, we move into TikTok, which is something we have ne, it's never said we would ever do, but realize that without that visibility to our younger audience, that they can't find us. 'cause they're not searching on Google, they are not searching on ai.
[00:32:29] Mari Considine: They are peer to peer and they are looking for, you know. Information on platforms that we weren't. So Senda will be on TikTok soon. So, you know, again, we're, we're definitely trying to make those shifts and trying to grow our audience and trying to, you know, be as effective as we can with our smaller budgets, with our smaller teams.
[00:32:49] Ray Mina: You've been so intentional. You, you both are so intentional about connecting the work you're doing to the business. A lot of intention of that experience. It's not just one dimensional, it's like you're. Where are people? What, what, what? Through their journey, how do we need to show up all the way from phone call or web experience to like in person.
[00:33:08] Ray Mina: And you're on the executive team, Mari, as you mentioned. How has that level of intentionality influenced or change how the rest of leadership views marketing in the organization?
[00:33:18] Mari Considine: It's definitely been a real shift for us. And so I've been very lucky 'cause our CEO has always been somebody who really loves marketing.
[00:33:27] Mari Considine: Like he really, it's something he really like cares about, but he doesn't, he doesn't pretend he knows how to do it right. And so I've been very lucky to be able to. Do a lot of the great things that we're able to do because of his support, but also his getting out of the way and letting us do. And so that hasn't always been the case, I think everywhere around the organization.
[00:33:48] Mari Considine: And so I think as being part of the executive team, um, you know, I'm part of the decision making process. On almost anything. And so that shifts things. So things that traditionally marketing or comms or brand wouldn't be a part of. I am a part of because of my seat on the executive team. And so, you know, I know what's coming up.
[00:34:08] Mari Considine: I know what's happening and you know, there are so many things that people don't think they need marketing involved in. And they do, but I know those things, so I, I know ahead of time. So I'm like, oh, Cari, here's, here's what this coming up the pike. Here's something we're gonna need to work on. And it really has helped.
[00:34:23] Mari Considine: But I, I do a lot of education and I think that, you know, we really talk today, even in our meet our team meeting about educating our, you know, our staff and, and just everybody on how marketing even works and how marketing today works. And so our. Marketing manager today said she was in a meeting and somebody had asked, we were trying to get clinicians to contribute on a piece of content, and one of the managers in the meeting said, well, what's the immediate return?
[00:34:52] Mari Considine: Like, if I work on that, am I gonna get, you know, new, new patients right away? And, you know, the whole idea of that's not how it worked. You can't just say that's not how it works. And, and really. Speaking more towards the education on how the funnel works and how, you know, yes, there is a correlation between you contributing to this content, maybe.
[00:35:13] Mari Considine: Nobody's who makes an appointment sees it, but other people see it. We're, you know, they're sharing it. We become a trusted partner. Then finally, somebody does, you know, need our services. They're searching. They find it, you know, and that it gets them into treatment. Again, it's not always this immediate one for one.
[00:35:33] Mari Considine: But trying to get that education and how do we educate our team members who aren't thinking about this stuff every day like we are. And that's still something that we're trying to problem solve because, you know, I think that's not, we're not unique in that when I talk to my counterparts that work elsewhere, I mean, I think that education piece we, we often feel like we're chief educators on marketing rather than just, you know.
[00:35:55] Mari Considine: Marketing because, and it changes so rapidly and things are, you know, constantly shifting. So, you know, what we told somebody two years ago is now not valid. And so now they're like, well, two years ago you told me this. And it's like, well, we wouldn't do that now. So again, it, it's providing that education in a way that is, you know, kind of helps them get on board without being light.
[00:36:18] Mari Considine: You should know this or you know, whatever. Um, but really getting them to understand and trust that we know what we're doing. So you might not understand it, but you can see on paper, you can see these metrics and you can see how it's working.
[00:36:30] Ray Mina: I love that. Yeah. You, externally, as marketers, we know we have to like interface with our market over and over again around the same message, but we sometimes forget internally you have to do the same thing.
[00:36:40] Ray Mina: It's a constant, it's a constant drip. If somebody. Wanted to build something like a brand experience design lab, and you were building a playbook for it. Like where, where would you tell them to start? Like what would be a really important starting point?
[00:36:54] Cari Burke: Ask the questions. Uh, try to get the feedback from, you know, those team members throughout the, you know, the, the business or the organization, because I think.
[00:37:05] Cari Burke: I don't think we're gonna be the only ones that get, you know, that those similar responses, like, you know, someone else doing the same thing, I think that they'd be surprised to get that feedback that is going to drive the work streams going forward. Um, and so I think just on the, the onset is at the right questions.
[00:37:25] Cari Burke: What is working and what is not, and you know, how can we tackle some, some of these, a couple of things and knowing that it's not. We we're not trying to add onto their job. You know, it's not a heavy lift. Bring in other people to, to help, you know, with the, the, the initiative and, and some of the, how we're gonna drive the change, but knowing that the end result is something that's going to benefit them.
[00:37:50] Cari Burke: It's not something that we're just doing to you. For fun. It's, you know, let's try this. It really is what the outcome is gonna be is going to help, you know, with your day to day and with the, the client experience with, and, and ultimately getting someone to, to utilize the services.
[00:38:08] Mari Considine: Yeah. As we see this, like we, you know, see this in the future, we're gonna shift that word lab to council and so it will be something that will continue.
[00:38:17] Mari Considine: And so once the lab work is done and we, we really feel like we're in a good place, we're gonna revisit. And so what do we need to kind of. Bring back to the lab or what, what seems to be working. And so this group of people will be the group of people to kind of take this on. And, you know, as people maybe leave or, or as we grow as an organization, we'll add people, but we don't wanna just have this be a one and done, oh, we fixed it.
[00:38:41] Mari Considine: Right? Like, brand experience is never going to be perfect and it's going to be something that's ever evolving. And so shifting that language from Lab to counsel is something, you know, we definitely see for the future. This isn't. You know, a temporary thing. This is something that we really believe in and something that we really, again, it's, we really care about those that we serve, and we wanna make sure that they are getting the best experience and they're not just choosing us because their insurance takes us, or, you know, what we want them to.
[00:39:07] Mari Considine: We wanna be the choice because they had a good feeling about who we are, about the care that we give, about the people that are here. And again, it's not just about, you know, we're a send us, so sometimes we pop up, you know, very early on the insurance list and you know, that's not why we want people to make the choice, but certainly if that's how they call, we wanna make sure that that experience they get when they make that phone call is the very best one.
[00:39:29] Mari Considine: And so, you know, where we can't compete on budget, we can't compete, you know, certainly on Google Ads, we know that there are some areas that. We can, we can do better and that we, we can really shift our focus and you know, and, and I think ASCE is better by it and certainly those that come to us for treatment are as well.
[00:39:49] Ray Mina: I love that this, uh, project is such an, or not just marketing, but the organization's DNA and that the, this is going to live beyond the lab into a council is a great, is a great thing to hear. Well, thank you both for being a part of Marketing Rounds. I really enjoyed the conversation. I think it's like. I thought this would be a conversation about how do we do more with less?
[00:40:09] Ray Mina: Like, I think you said it, Cari is like, can't just throw up our hands and say, just because we have this competitive environment, we just are gonna be frozen. You just adapt to that and you figure out like where you have superpowers, where are they and how do you lean into them. Is is really the difference maker for y'all.
[00:40:25] Cari Burke: Thank you so much. Yes. Thank you for having us.
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