The digital front door isn't just about convenience, it's the foundation for measurable, compliant growth. Hackensack Meridian Health's transformation came from pairing improved access with rigorous measurement, strong consent practices, and privacy-safe analytics that power performance marketing. In this episode, Adrienne Woods, Vice President of Digital Engagement reveals how she modernized scheduling and access, then proved ROI using booked and attended appointments, channel efficiency, and operational alignment. The results: lower customer acquisition costs, higher conversion rates, and the confidence to scale marketing spend. This is a blueprint for health systems seeking growth, reliable measurement, and airtight compliance—all at once.
💡 Episode Summary
The digital front door isn't just about convenience, it's the foundation for measurable, compliant growth. Hackensack Meridian Health's transformation came from pairing improved access with rigorous measurement, strong consent practices, and privacy-safe analytics that power performance marketing. In this episode, Adrienne Woods, Vice President of Digital Engagement reveals how she modernized scheduling and access, then proved ROI using booked and attended appointments, channel efficiency, and operational alignment. The results: lower customer acquisition costs, higher conversion rates, and the confidence to scale marketing spend. This is a blueprint for health systems seeking growth, reliable measurement, and airtight compliance—all at once.
👉 Check out the actionable guide based on this episode
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⏱️ Episode Timestamps
*(01:39) - The digital front door concept
*(07:12) - Technical changes for better patient experience
*(13:13) - Healthcare marketing proof points
*(24:45) - The role of digital tools in healthcare
*(26:22) - Where the digital front door is headed next
*(39:46) - Consumer experience and trust in healthcare
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💬 Quote
“ It's also that handoff between the brand team and the marketing team, the email campaign team and those kind of things. Before we were as seamless as we are now, they would put out an ad or put out a billboard for example, featuring a new location. The brand would say, We're so excited that this physician who everybody knows in the community is taking over this practice. We need to get new patients to this new building and we're going to feature this physician that everybody knows. The issue is that physician is already fully booked, so you're spending money to market this location for ease of service with this great physician everybody likes. But then when they go to make the appointment, how frustrating is it that he or she can't see you for six months? Whereas, that physician that everybody loves is bringing two or three other physicians with them to that location. So yeah, quote the physician that everybody knows, but highlight all this availability at that location so that you're doing what you're setting out to do, which is bringing new patients to that new location. I think that's the missing piece a lot of times is, what is your end goal and then how can you get there? It's not by promoting this physician that everybody loves, who doesn't have availability to see anybody.” – Adrienne Woods
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🔗 Links
Connect with Adrienne Woods on LinkedIn
Connect with Ray Mina on LinkedIn
Learn more about Caspian Studios
[00:00:00] Adrienne Woods: Until we started saying what is a real call to action to measure success and measuring success is getting the right person to the right physician at the right time. You can't get that from time on page, how many pages they visited, bounce rate, you know, all of those type of words. So it's, to me, it's the, it's the call to action and getting that patient in the front door that matters.
[00:00:26] Ray Mina: I've lost track of the conversations I've had around how healthcare brands, privacy or not, are being judged in the exact same way that other consumer brands are being judged. But most of that conversation has really, in my mind, has been about user, user experience, UX, and really hasn't been oriented towards measurable growth.
[00:00:45] Ray Mina: And as I, I always joke on stage, I call myself a spoiled B2B, you know, SAS brat, because I think
[00:00:51] Adrienne Woods: I've heard you say that.
[00:00:52] Ray Mina: that's true, right? Like honestly, I've been in enough board meetings and enough, I've always worked for first time founders who have. All kinds of paranoia and FOMO and so I've just learned very early in my career is like, you really need to shore up that view from end to end.
[00:01:06] Ray Mina: You need to make sure that you're getting from not just an impression to a click, but all the way down to the actual patient and the revenue. And when I think about this conversation of like the digital front door, being foundational to that growth strategy beyond just the consumer experience.
[00:01:25] Ray Mina: I can't think of anyone better to have the conversation with than, than you Adrienne Woods because you're, you're someone who's been talking about this for so long, so thanks for being on the podcast with me, and I'm really excited to dig into this with you.
[00:01:37] Adrienne Woods: Thanks, Ray. I'm excited too.
[00:01:39] Ray Mina: You've described the digital front door as foundational in a lot of the conversations that we've had, literally not optional.
[00:01:45] Ray Mina: Like you, you need to get, you need to do this. I, I guess as a starting point, I would just love to hear from you. As you started that journey and you kind of built some of the foundational elements of the digital front door, what jumped out initially? Where did you start to see the first measurable improvements, especially when it comes to acquiring patients?
[00:02:05] Adrienne Woods: Yeah. I think the first thing that we noticed was when we talked about the digital front door before we even defined it, I think it became one of those things people talked about, but everyone had their own kind of, you know, definition of it. And I, I, I can't take credit for this. My, my boss, Pam Landis, came up with these kind of four A's of our digital front door.
[00:02:24] Adrienne Woods: And so I think first of all, we had to say, What is the digital front door to us and what's the objective of each stage of that digital front door? So for example, you know, the first one is, you know, digital marketing and what do, what are they, what are they trying to do? They're trying, trying to acquire, they're trying to acquire consumers.
[00:02:41] Adrienne Woods: So they're our starting point. And then what do they do after that? Well, we wanna activate them. That comes into the web team or the mobile team and so forth. So, you know, first we have to, you know, acquire them and then we have to give them something to do. And then after that, we have to give them access to all the things that we have in the healthcare system.
[00:02:58] Adrienne Woods: So they come to us via an email campaign for a specific orthopedic. Physician and then not only then, then in access. Well now you can pay, make an appointment online. You can reschedule via text and then adoption. The final part is how do we keep them in the loop of our consumer journey? So I think that when we define the objectives based on the kind of the domain in the digital front door.
[00:03:24] Adrienne Woods: We removed our own friction just by defining it. And so how's the handoff go? You know, how's the handoff go from the, you know, activation team to the access team and the how's the handoff go once they have all the access and all the tools, how do we help them adopt? That's all the, in my mind, that is the goal of the digital front door, is the patient goes through that system over and over again.
[00:03:49] Ray Mina: Yeah, I love the, my brain, I immediately went to, like, in my world, I think of that as like acquisition. And then I think of engagement. And then I think of retention because a lot of the conversations I'm having right now, and I think marketers are being forced into this world, a lot of the conversation.
[00:04:05] Ray Mina: Purely acquisition. But not thinking all the way through that journey of how do I like nurture them? How do I actually max, like whether we like it or not, these. These economics apply, like, how do I improve the lifetime value of a patient? How do I make sure that the organization gets, you know, delivers the most services and, and, and provides the most value?
[00:04:24] Ray Mina: So I, I definitely love, I love that you went there and you used the word consumer, which I feel like when I first started learning more and more about healthcare, that felt like a word. People were tiptoeing around, but I'm like, this is consumer marketing. It's just health services. It's not, not really that different.
[00:04:41] Adrienne Woods: Yeah. I always use the word consumer because I think of it as the person one, the person always has a choice. There are a lot of choices out there. So we, I believe that we as the healthcare system, need to treat them as consumers, as clients or potential clients. And not just that, but the consumer is that individual.
[00:04:57] Adrienne Woods: But it's also, a lot of times that individual is not making the decision for their care based in a silo. They have caregivers or they have people that they need to rely on for that support. So it, it's a consumer journey. It's not a patient journey in my mind.
[00:05:11] Ray Mina: That makes a lot of sense. Going back to like measurable growth, you know, when I think about what you just described to me is that goes way beyond just like a form fill or some kind of like early engagement metric.
[00:05:25] Ray Mina: It gets to revenue for the organization. When you, when you were building the digital front door strategy, like. What was an unlock for you? What was an aha moment where you're like, wait a second, this actually can have a pretty big impact to the revenue outcomes that the organization cares about?
[00:05:43] Adrienne Woods: I would say the importance of the call to action. You know, when you look at the, you know, the metrics that we used to look at, you know, impressions, time, on page, you know, those kind of things. We had, in many cases, impressions and time on page and visits to pages where the call to action wasn't clear. And so while it looked like a success in terms of our page, you know, our clicks, our interaction with this page is going up.
[00:06:06] Adrienne Woods: Well, that means our marketing campaign was doing its job, but if we were just relying on that, it would look like a success. But if we're not seeing the, as you said, the the downstream actual action, an appointment is someone walking in the door, then it wasn't really a success. So until we started saying, what is a real call to action to measure success? And measuring success is getting the right person to the right physician at the right time. You can't get that from time on page, how many pages they visited, balance rate, you know, all of those type of words. So it's, to me, it's the, it's the call to action in getting that patient in the front door that matters.
[00:06:44] Ray Mina: In my world, I think about this as, yeah, you, you spend a lot of effort, whether that's money or organic or campaigns, just to get somebody to the actual like experience. And then I think of this as like conversion rate optimization. How, now that they're there, how can we improve that experience.
[00:07:06] Ray Mina: Whether it's just simply language or a way to educate them at that moment, that call to action, or maybe something in healthcare that's a little bit deeper. Can you take a step further, like beyond just the call to action, beyond the way that you describe that call to action or the offers that you give them? What are some of the technical changes that you felt like?
[00:07:23] Ray Mina: I'll frame it, like scheduling. I, I'm a consumer and I'm trying to get an update on my eye exam because it's been a while. And the reason that I keep delaying it is because all the providers near me, I can't just book an appointment, it, I have to call them. And then the moment that I have to call them, it's a Sunday or it's after I like, I'm like, why can't I just text you or book an appointment?
[00:07:46] Ray Mina: Why is this so hard? Like, what are the technical changes that you feel like you had to make in that journey that had the biggest, you know, had the biggest bang for the buck and, and in, in driving those patients to completion.?
[00:07:58] Adrienne Woods: Yeah, Ray, this is where I kind of geek out. This is my favorite part of my job in terms of making it less friction for that consumer.
[00:08:05] Adrienne Woods: Just like their retail experience, just like what they're used to in every other aspect of their life. Making it the less friction will be the best outcome, not only for for the healthcare system, but for that consumer as well. So I think of, you know, you're, you gave the eye exam. Here's one that you know, I have.
[00:08:23] Adrienne Woods: I need shoulder surgery, and I even found a campaign, an email was sent to me talking about the best shoulder surgeons at Hackensack Meridian Health. If that call to action goes to orthopedic surgeons, you're gonna get 400 orthopedic surgeons, and then you have to do the work to find a shoulder surgeon with availability and how to schedule them.
[00:08:46] Adrienne Woods: If we make that consumer experience the way it should be, and it's not hard. Take that person to orthopedic surgeons at Hackensack Meridian Health that have online schedulable appointments to make it seamless. Part of the wonders of digital is that we should be making everything easier for the consumer, for our team members, for our providers, and that's the digital tools that, so we need to be up upfront with what we can offer and then make sure we're offering it every time.
[00:09:15] Adrienne Woods: You know, if you said, for example, that back to your eye exam, if you said. You've got an ad, you know, you got an email or you know, text message or you know something from some organization and it said, schedule your eye exam today and it took you to a landing page where you couldn't actually schedule an eye exam.
[00:09:31] Adrienne Woods: You've lost trust in that organization and you're more frustrated. So if we think of the everything from paid search all the way to organic search, to however they get to you. If you provide a call to action that allows them to complete the action that they have in their mind that they wanna do, you're gaining their trust and then they will continue to utilize your services.
[00:09:57] Adrienne Woods: So to me, that call to action and that user experience is more than just getting them to do something. It's, it's gaining their trust in you as an organization.
[00:10:06] Ray Mina: Yeah, that's a great call out. And I said at the top that it doesn't really matter that you're in healthcare, consumers like me who are literally begging you to allow me to book.
[00:10:15] Ray Mina: I would've had the appointment two months ago. You're, I'm literally begging you. Yes. It's, it's, it's too hard. And you know, we're not keeping up with the expectations that I have. For other services that I experience. Okay, so now every, not everyone, some people are nodding their heads, others are gonna make a bunch of excuses.
[00:10:32] Ray Mina: Sorry, this is a hot take and I'm gonna probably lose some friends here. But they're gonna make excuses of why they can't do that, to give them an incentive beyond just doing what's right for the consumer. I know this has had an impact to your downstream KPIs.
[00:10:52] Ray Mina: I don't know if like customer acquisition cost or CPL, something like that is what you anchor on. Maybe you can tell us what you anchor on, and then the incentive is like, tell us how it has impacted those metrics that actually fuel the growth of your organization.
[00:11:05] Adrienne Woods: Yeah, I think that. It's, you know, 'cause we have that, and this is not, you know, unique to healthcare by any means.
[00:11:10] Adrienne Woods: But the example I'll give is healthcare related because we, it's doctors. So doctors are the ones that we need to work with to provide these online scheduling appointments and make it beneficial for the patient. So I think that one of, one of the things we start with analytics, I mean, doctors like data, just like, you know, a lot of people do.
[00:11:30] Adrienne Woods: And the data will show them that online scheduling works because it's meeting the patient when they're trying to make an appointment. We can show them data. When people, and you said it earlier, it's on a Sunday. It's Tuesday night. Especially new patients, you know, that's when they have time. They don't have time at 11 o'clock to call the office and wait on hold to make an appointment.
[00:11:49] Adrienne Woods: So if you open your availability to us. You will get new patients and new patients is what we're all looking for in terms of, that's, that's our marketing, that's what our job is as marketers, to get new patients in the door and to keep the patients that we have, you know, and that's by, you know, lots of things downstream as we talked about, that adoption and the virtual and so forth.
[00:12:10] Adrienne Woods: But if your goal is new patients, online scheduling is the way to do that. And what the other thing we can do with online scheduling is we can make. By sometimes taking the person out of it a little bit and using the digital tools to their fullest extent, we can ensure that that patient gets with the right provider with data accuracy, the data accuracy of the provider directory, the data accuracy of the scheduling appointment.
[00:12:35] Adrienne Woods: So I can show physicians that, hey, these are the appointments. This is what you, what kind of, you know, patients, you see what new patients come into the door. We can create an online journey that only allows people looking for that specific thing that you treat will be the only people that can book with you.
[00:12:52] Adrienne Woods: Therefore, you're happy as the provider. That patient that has not been to our healthcare system before is happy because they were able to make an appointment with the right provider at the right time, showing them the data, but then also explaining that journey and how digital helps them get that. Make sure that they are seeing the right people at the right time. That works really well.
[00:13:13] Ray Mina: Taking a step further reporting back to like Pam or other leadership. What, what have you been able to demonstrate in your reporting? You know, like a KPI, like the customer acquisition costs went down, or we were able to increase patience year over year by like, you know, investing here.
[00:13:31] Ray Mina: What have you been able to report back to show that the, and, and I'm, I'm, I'm asking you so that we can. Help people, you know, like, it's not gonna be easy in some ways, but there's gonna be a carrot for you and you shouldn't make excuses to not do this because the business outcome is there. What, what is that proof point that you've been able to provide leadership?
[00:13:50] Adrienne Woods: I think we can, several proof points, but one that is an always an interesting one is how quickly new providers to our system can increase the number of their patients by offering online scheduling very quickly. So it should say like, our normal, you know, for a new pro, new physician, internal medicine physician coming in usually takes them, you know, six months, I'm making up these numbers, six months to create a full panel if they offer online scheduling and we can show that they're at full capacity in three months.
[00:14:17] Adrienne Woods: You know, it's not, it's, it's pretty good likelihood that they got there that quickly because of online scheduling. So, and then another one, for example, campaigns, mammography. If we text patients that say, Hey, you know, you are due for a mammography, it's important that you get one every year. It's important for your health.
[00:14:35] Adrienne Woods: Here's an easy way to do it. You can click on this link. It will take you to online scheduling. You can make your appointment right away. If we can show that every time we send those text messages. The mammography appointments go up at the locations where we are sending them. That is showing true value in offering these digital solutions.
[00:14:54] Ray Mina: And a big part of that is because you've taken a holistic approach to this digital front door where you don't have the, the drop offs. Like most of the folks that I talk to can see all the way up to some form, you know, this web form fill. But then lose sight, sometimes, to the actual booked appointment in the system and then definitely to the appointment was actually held, or there was an attended appointment is a big reason that you can report off of that because you have closed a lot of those gaps and a lot of that fall off.
[00:15:27] Adrienne Woods: I think we've closed a lot of those gaps and we know our data, so we look at our data often and we ensure accuracy of the data. And, and, and by doing that we notice the trends. And I think unless you're looking at your data and know your data, it's hard to see trends.
[00:15:41] Adrienne Woods: So, you know, one of, a lot of the leaders at Hackensack, they, they are very proactive in knowing the data and they don't wanna be caught off guard. They don't wanna be surprised if, like in quarter two of next year, like. Last year we ended up with, you know, 10,000 less patient visits than the year before.
[00:15:58] Adrienne Woods: Like, that would not be something anyone wants to be surprised at. And so I think that giving them the data and showing that the journey, as you said, from, you know, looking at, they come to a page that's great. They click a call to action to go to the provider directory, that's great. But if they don't make that appointment and then keep that appointment, our job's not done.
[00:16:18] Adrienne Woods: So ensuring that we can show them that, that, and we can see that they've made the appointment and these, these are the number of appointments booked. This is what this patient's, you know, journey has looked like. Those kind of things. A patient's journey.
[00:16:31] Ray Mina: That's so huge. I, I've learned, you know, I've been in B2B SaaS startups for almost 20 years. And I've learned, yeah, like you don't wanna be in a board meeting and, and be caught by surprise or not be able to report on something that's critical. And this may be unfair, but I've kind of formed a bit of a view that healthcare marketers are not growth marketers.
[00:16:53] Ray Mina: Many historically are really, really, really great at brand marketing. They know a lot of things that I don't know and, and how to be a great brand marketer. But then it makes data something that's a bit scary and so makes people feel like better to just not know and not have the visibility. And then that ends up putting you in a situation where one day you find out your customer acquisition cost is actually two times what you thought it was in some of these channels, which is, you know, unsustainable.
[00:17:19] Ray Mina: What is that cadence like? How do you, how do you all approach data? Is it daily, is it weekly? Like, how do you, how do you have that conversation with your CMO and with the rest of leadership?
[00:17:32] Adrienne Woods: I would say the data, I mean daily, in most cases, weekly at least, and it's ensuring that. You know, our, we think of ourselves as growth, growth for the healthcare system.
[00:17:43] Adrienne Woods: That is part of our role, but then the other part of our role is ensuring that the other teams in marketing, for example, as you said, have the data that they need to do their job well. And so I think that it's that, and there's handoffs again, when I went back, you know, the handoff between the acquisition team and the activation team and the access team, it's also that handoff between the brand team and the marketing team, the email campaign team and those kind of things.
[00:18:06] Adrienne Woods: And so, for example. It, it used to be, I think before we were as seamless as we are now, that, you know, they would put out an ad or put out a, you know, a, a billboard, for example, featuring a new location. The brand would say, this physician we're so excited that this physician who everybody knows in the community is, is taking over this practice, this new practice.
[00:18:30] Adrienne Woods: We need to get new patients to this new building and we're gonna feature this physician that everybody knows. The issue is that is that physician is already fully booked, so you're spending money to market this, this location for ease of service with this great physician everybody likes. But then when they go to make the appointment, how frustrating is that that he or she can't see you for six months?
[00:18:54] Adrienne Woods: Whereas, that physician that everybody loves is bringing two or three other physicians with them to that location. So yeah, quote the physician that everybody knows, but highlight all this availability at that location so that you're. You're doing what you're setting out to do, which is bringing new patients to that new location.
[00:19:10] Adrienne Woods: I think that's the part that was missed. Not, I mean, I think, I hope it's missed by others. I hope I'm not the only one that has missed this in the past, but I think that's the missing piece a lot of times is, you know, if your end goal, what is your end goal and then how can you get there? It's not by promoting this physician that everybody loves who doesn't have availability to see anybody.
[00:19:29] Ray Mina: Yeah, this was something that was on my mind to talk to you a little bit about later, but I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna ask you, 'cause you, you just brought it up, which is like, how do like with the data that you have now, 'cause this is a struggle, people tell us all the time. I was just speaking to a CMO last Thursday and they said like one of the biggest challenges we have is that we're doing marketing to service lines that are already at capacity.
[00:19:55] Ray Mina: And it's really difficult because of that lack of data flow for us to know when to cycle up and cycle down. How has something like this, this, you know, funnel visibility that you have now, how have you been able to leverage that to basically like shut off a service line or like, what do you do with that and how do you adjust to this point that you just brought up, the billboard you can't shut off, but you can shut off digital or you could change how much you pay for a new patient, or there's things you could do to throttle that. What, what, what are you doing?
[00:20:26] Adrienne Woods: Yeah, a couple things and one of them is a simple, and the data will show us, you know, we know how the capacity of our physicians and how many new patient visits they have available, how many established patients that they can see, how long between making the appointment will they get that first visit.
[00:20:41] Adrienne Woods: So while we can't shut off marketing for a service line per se, okay, we can work with them to say we are working as a team to ensure that. Patients get to the right physician when they become a patient. So we start with the back to that consumer thing. They're not your patient yet, so, and they will never be your patient if they call your office and it's a 45 minute wait and then they're told that you're not even accepting new patients.
[00:21:07] Adrienne Woods: So if we're marketing your service line and we're getting people to call you, and then you're telling them that you're not accepting new patients, then you've lost that person forever. And we might've lost them as a whole network because your unavailability is a reflection of our healthcare system.
[00:21:25] Adrienne Woods: And so I think that that's part of, is ensuring that they understand what their, what the ask is and what the service line. And again, with the digital part, so while we don't, we won't shut off the marketing for a service line. We can look at promoting that we have the best care, take care. You know, the new technology we're using, those kind of things, the things that physicians want patients to know. Want consumers to know.
[00:21:48] Adrienne Woods: But then when it comes to the call to action, we need to agree that it is not to call a phone number. The call to action is if you have new physicians, maybe at an out, you know, a location close to you, close to the mothership. Yeah, let's promote this satellite locations where there is availability.
[00:22:07] Adrienne Woods: Knowing that when they need that complex care, they will get to you. You have to trust, gain their trust and know that, that that person will get to you if they need your care. But right now they would be great and perfectly suited at one of our multi-specialty centers right down the street.
[00:22:22] Ray Mina: The thing that you just said is, it's like, yeah, it, if you're call to action is call that you went, you said this earlier, like, what is the right call to action if your call to action is call.
[00:22:32] Ray Mina: And no one's gonna pick up that phone or the hold times are gonna be forever because of capacity issues, then that's a terrible call to action for a marketing campaign. And then it's really working with those cross-functional partners to understand like, how can we adjust this based on the context?
[00:22:49] Adrienne Woods: I think of it even as the journey, you know, I talk a lot about, I don't think of healthcare marketing and the healthcare journey for consumers as you know, it's this point A, you go from point A to point B to point C. You might start at point A, you might start at point Z. And I think a point A is you need a, you're a new person who needs a primary care visit, so you are in the search for a primary care physician and you need it a, you know, you work full time, you need it at this location close by.
[00:23:14] Adrienne Woods: That's point A. Point Z is you're brought in by ambulance to our emergency room. Those are two extremes, but it, in my opinion, in my belief, they should have the same consumer journey. So if they leave the ED with a card that tells them to call this number and then they can't get a follow up with a primary care provider, then you failed the journey.
[00:23:33] Adrienne Woods: You failed the experience for that, for that person. So they're leaving the emergency room, they've never been a patient. We need to ensure that we're giving them the material, the communication that they need from their healthcare system that now is their healthcare system to make an appointment right away with, Hey, virtual care is available this afternoon with a primary care provider, so that, that kind of consumer journey and whether or not they come into your system as A or at point Z. Same as a retail, then they should still have, they should still have the same tools and get the same experience.
[00:24:09] Ray Mina: That makes total sense. I'm making a generalization. You, you're, you're living in a world where you can see, you know, from beginning to end and being like consumer interest all the way to patient. And a lot of healthcare is living in a world where they can see consumer interest to some kind of form fill, generally driven by Google Ads.
[00:24:31] Ray Mina: That's like, this should not be controversial. Most of advertising spend in healthcare is still in Google Ads, which, which is a good place to start. But that's kind of it, like, that's pretty much the end of the journey now that you can see that full funnel. Have you had any epiphany on like, wow, like now that I can actually see down to attended appointment and successful appointment, some of these other channels look a lot more attractive than they used to when we didn't have that visibility?
[00:24:59] Ray Mina: I'm, I'm just curious if there were any like, learnings that the organization had about, holy cow, these things actually work a lot better than we thought?
[00:25:07] Adrienne Woods: Yeah, I think the learnings are one that, you know how quickly with digital we can change that, you know, process. And if we're not seeing the, you know, the, what our expectations are of new patient visits at a new location, that we can tweak the system with our digital tools to make that a better experience.
[00:25:26] Adrienne Woods: We can change the way that we market to consumers. We can change, you know, the, the location that we're marketing to those consumers and so forth to see the experience that we expect to see. I think that's part of it. It's also ensuring that we're providing that access via tools that, I guess what I'd say is we have to know that patients might not ever come to our website.
[00:25:48] Adrienne Woods: They, we could still offer them the solution that they need that will bring them to our system. For example, Google, I mean Google, they can go to one of our physicians in their Google listing on Google, and you can make an appointment right there. That person is now a patient of our system and might not have ever gone to our website.
[00:26:09] Adrienne Woods: So I think it's managing that, first of all, knowing, knowing those digital tools and knowing that. Knowing where the consumer's expectations are and then the journey that they have to get there and the fact that it might include not even going to your website.
[00:26:22] Ray Mina: What are some other examples of journeys that don't go to your website that you know, consumer to patient, but bypassing the website? What are some of the other things that you've seen?
[00:26:32] Adrienne Woods: That's a great question. You know, our Find a Doc is another good one. I mean that, that's part of our website, but consumers might make an appointment with a knee surgeon and come to the hospital for ACL surgery without ever landing on an orthopedic service line page on our website.
[00:26:49] Adrienne Woods: So I think that entails, you know, back to the idea of the providers and the data accuracy. That's why we focus a lot on that. Not only that, provider data accuracy, the black and white, like is the address correct? Is the phone number correct? All of those things that are picked up, you know, in AI summaries and all those things. It's, but it's also ensuring that provider has a, you know, bio and a profile that highlights their expertise because again, that patient might not get to that service line that explains all the procedures.
[00:27:18] Adrienne Woods: So different digital tools. It's not duplicating everything, but it's knowing that audience of who's gonna get to that and what they need to know, right? Then they need to know that that surgeon offers the, the treatment or the procedure that they've been told they need by the urgent care or the provider direct, you know, the primary care provider.
[00:27:38] Ray Mina: One of the things that has been interesting to me, so we, we've, we've talked to quite a few different healthcare organizations who their KPIs be, be, it's just what they're used to. It's the, it's the cultural norm. They, they can't see all the way down to that success point that you have. And they're, they see something at at the website level, right?
[00:27:58] Ray Mina: Which you just called out, gives them a whole bunch of blind spots as to how their patients are, how consumers become patients. But then, then they really struggle to make that shift. Even if you can give them the data, even if you can move them to like the revenue, it's a really difficult shift for them to make organizationally.
[00:28:16] Ray Mina: I'm just curious, like did you go through that same struggle or was it relatively easy because you had top down buy-in from your CMO? Like what were some of the kind of process changes you put in place to help the team start to like orient towards like what those North Stars are for the company?.
[00:28:35] Adrienne Woods: Yeah. I think that we had great buy-in from executive leadership in terms of what we're, you know, the experience that we're providing is, you know, getting the consumers into our system at the place that they need to be, when they need to be there. And same thing with location. So the, we have digital buy-in, you know, from executive leadership down in terms of the importance of digital and the, the focus on digital.
[00:29:00] Adrienne Woods: And it's also, they trust our teams to keep up with that. Which is a lot on, you know, as you know, the digitals changes all the time. But I think that because we've earned that trust and know the digital tools and can show them that that relationship, like the metrics, it doesn't matter how many people like, get outta your mind that a million people visited this landing page.
[00:29:20] Adrienne Woods: If three people clicked on a call to action to get to that provider directory, which is the only place that they can make an appointment in terms of that, you know, that journey then. Then we failed. So getting them to, you know, thinking that, okay, our goal is the call to action is to get the appointments.
[00:29:39] Adrienne Woods: We, as a digital team say, okay, what do we need to know? Where's the next place? People are looking for those digital appointments, you know, the AI summaries in Google. That's another place where people might get straight to a physician without even visiting. Doing a, so search on our provider directory or again, going to our website is because if someone types in best shoulder surgeon in, you know, Edison, New Jersey, and the AI summary, it could list a physician and take you right to their profile to make the appointment, those kind of things. So we need to work on our AI summaries, even though that pa, even though the consumer isn't coming to your website or might not come to the, you know, the top funnel of your provider directory.
[00:30:24] Adrienne Woods: If the data that that consumer is looking for, that context is not in the website, you can't get in AI summary, and if you can't get in the AI summary, that means someone else down the street is in that AI summary and getting that consumer's attention right away. So while websites might not be as crucial to the step as they used to be, if the accuracy of the data isn't on the website, then you can't get to that next level of actually acquiring that patient anyway.
[00:30:46] Ray Mina: It's almost like having a clear North Star that you know is, is coming top-down frees you because then you're in love with the problem and not the individual features of like
[00:30:56] Adrienne Woods: I love that.
[00:30:57] Ray Mina: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, I just, I know what the goal is and then it allows us to like think about, holistically, how we continue to drive towards that.
[00:31:05] Ray Mina: We've touched on this a little bit, but one of the things that's really stood out to me, 'cause you've mentioned the physicians, and you've mentioned the CMO, like what stood out to me is that none of this has happened in a silo. This is something you've, you've been a big part of like instrumenting and pushing forward, but you've had cross-functional buy-in along the way.
[00:31:27] Ray Mina: Was that something that took time to change mindset or was, did you just have, was it kumbaya from day one and everybody was on board? I'm just kind of curious what that took, 'cause it sounds like it would, could, it could be challenging, you know, getting folks who don't understand marketing on board with some of the things you've been working on.
[00:31:46] Adrienne Woods: Yeah. I think that it's, I would say it's probably, I don't think it's as challenging for our healthcare system as maybe I've heard stories of others, because I do think that there was buy-in from executive leadership of, in terms of the growth aspect and what growth, the digital strategy and digital engagement can offer the healthcare system and the importance of the digital strategy.
[00:32:06] Adrienne Woods: The importance of the digital front door. I think it's being able to explain it again, going back to how we started, if you can't explain your digital front door, how's anybody that you are, you know, that you're supposed to work with, supposed to understand their role in that arena. So, for example, we're, you know, looking at, if we're looking at lung cancer screenings and we want to increase the number of lung cancer screenings for patients that qualify for a lung cancer screening.
[00:32:33] Adrienne Woods: If we just send an email campaign to, you know, out in the universe of people of a specific age, you know, that may or may not need one, we're not, that's top of the funnel. We're not gonna get where we need to be. If we look at work with the primary care providers and see, you know, who, where those patients are, ensure that they have the tools and the education to explain why that lung cancer screen is important.
[00:32:59] Adrienne Woods: Make it easy to get that lung cancer screening. Not only are we increasing the number of lung cancer screenings, but frankly we're saving lives at the same time. But if that primary care practice doesn't understand the whole process of how someone even gets a lung cancer screening, then they can't provide that education to the patient.
[00:33:20] Adrienne Woods: That, that trust starts with the doctor's office. You know, the patient trusts their doctor completely. They don't trust, I mean, they don't, they can't trust a building. They trust their doctor. And so part of our role is to provide that doctor with the digital tools that they need to give the patient the information that they need.
[00:33:41] Ray Mina: How does research, because this is the part I, I think that healthcare markers that I've met are really, really good at, which is like that research and really under, like you said, it like, we really understand not just digitally, but like innately understand the, you know, consumers in your markets around your services.
[00:33:58] Ray Mina: What's the research like? Like what kind of research do y'all do to try to gain that understanding of that journey so that, that you then can properly enable your physicians?
[00:34:09] Adrienne Woods: Yeah, we do a ton of research. I mean, we work, you know, all, we do everything from, you know, research within our patients, research with, you know, consumer wide without, you know, in across New Jersey, asking them patients, you know, asking them questions about healthcare systems, their recollection, recollection of, you know, digital ads or things that they've seen and what their ex, you know, what their expectations are of the healthcare system.
[00:34:32] Adrienne Woods: Versus the healthcare system down the street. So we do all kinds of research in terms of, you know, the voice of the patient, the voice of the consumer. But it's also doing, you know, research. We work with other healthcare organizations all the time. I mean, that's part of where I get my research is colleagues throughout the, you know, the country that are doing things that we're starting to do.
[00:34:48] Adrienne Woods: Well, yeah, let, let me learn from you rather than me go try to reinvent the wheel and make the same mistakes you did if we're, you know, that, that's part of what I love about healthcare in terms of, you know, this is getting a little off track, but I think that most healthcare, especially digital healthcare market, healthcare marketers, we understand our role and so many of us just wanna do right by the providers and the consumers.
[00:35:14] Adrienne Woods: Getting people, again, the right person at the right time so that the providers, seeing the, the patient that they could, you know, it could be, they could save their life five years from now. So that journey and so we're, what I found is a lot of us are willing to share. We're willing to share.
[00:35:31] Adrienne Woods: We want you to learn from our experience. We want you to not have to repeat what we did to, you know, that we wasted six months on this digital project that, you know, we got, you know, two phone calls, four, like, don't do that. So I think that that's part of the research that we do is, you know, learning from other colleagues throughout the, you know, throughout, throughout the country.
[00:35:51] Ray Mina: I mean, that's why this podcast is going to exist in the universe and have great people like you on it. Because that's the thing that I think is really unique about healthcare is that even though some of y'all are in a competitive situation, people are continually looking to help each other. A big part of it's 'cause there's a lot at stake for consumers who become patients and yeah, I can completely relate to that and love that you feel that way.
[00:36:17] Ray Mina: The crystal ball time. So man, a lot is gonna change in the next like just by the end of this decade, so much is gonna change with technology, with AI and the way that we do the things that we're talking about now, I can't, I don't think we could even predict, 'cause I don't, I don't even think we can imagine where it's going.
[00:36:34] Ray Mina: So then I'm gonna put you on the spot anyway. You know, this decade, by the end of the decade, what, what are the things that really need to change across healthcare related to the digital front door? Like, what's going to become like what you need to do to have exactly what you need for the rest of the decade?
[00:36:55] Ray Mina: Is there more that you know you need to do to like, remove all this friction for consumers so they can become patients? Like, what, where do we need to get to over the next, you know, three years?
[00:37:06] Adrienne Woods: That's a great question. I think that, you know, AI will still always, I think that AI will continue to be part of the conversation, you know, three or four years from now, the end of the decade.
[00:37:14] Adrienne Woods: But it, it will be a tool that keeps getting better in terms of, you know, how we use it. More people will know how to use AI. You know, the AI will continue to improve and I think one of the things, what we still could benefit from and will, it's a constant work in progress, and this is probably opening a can of worms in itself and could be a whole podcast by itself is integrity of the data.
[00:37:34] Adrienne Woods: It's just your own data as a healthcare system. And I'm talking basics like addresses, phone numbers, suite numbers, all those things where the data lives in healthcare organizations, and I'm sure it's true for other organizations, but at least you know, so many people need data and they have different ways of collecting the data and storing the data.
[00:37:55] Adrienne Woods: So this data over here might have the right address for this physician, but this data over here has an old address that no one even knew existed, but they use it for this kind of work and so forth. So I think that streamlining data that will provide the accuracy that consumers need and that not just consumers that Google needs, the search engines need to give the information to the consumers will continue to be, is, is continuing to be a struggle.
[00:38:22] Adrienne Woods: I don't think we're the only ones that have this issue. And I think that using AI as well as other tools to allow that digital front door to be the source of truth with all of the data that is coming throughout the, you know, throughout the hospital.
[00:38:42] Adrienne Woods: And that then ensuring there's a way to maintain the accuracy without people having to fill out a form for them to go to medical staff office, for example. So how, how can we get the data? If we get the data frictionless, then the possibilities are, you know, endless in terms of what search engines can do, what we can do in chat. Like anything, you know. Just go, you know, if you, I tell physicians go put your name in chat and see what comes up.
[00:39:05] Adrienne Woods: Like the top 10 things that you know you can tell me about and put your name in. Some of 'em are like, well, this is very correct, but where they get this information, you know, and so finding that source of truth that that lived out there, I think that that's something that I want to work on. And I think that others that feel the same way in terms of how, how much that can benefit the healthcare system.
[00:39:27] Ray Mina: Yeah. I think with, with, you know, super intelligent, fast approaching, you know, sophisticated AI, it will only be as good as the data that, you know, we have access to. I, I totally agree with that. And it's, it's not even a healthcare, it's a problem in every organization. Data is such a, such a difficult thing.
[00:39:46] Ray Mina: Let me ask the question in a different way, just to get a different take from you. If I'm a healthcare organization and I'm under, you know, most healthcare organizations are under competitive pressure. Maybe other systems within their geos or upstart competitors, like, you know, Amazon spending a bunch of money here, other organizations are too.
[00:40:04] Ray Mina: What is going to be table stakes for me to be the number one brand in my region? Like what must I do or else I'm gonna fall to the bottom of the pile, which is where some people are ending up today.
[00:40:21] Adrienne Woods: The consumer experience is what you need, is the focus on the consumer experience and providing the best experience. So being the source of truth, being who they trust, and providing them with what they need to do, what they came to you to do. So, you know, encouraging consumers that they own their healthcare. We are there to support that ownership and give them access to how they can most easily take advantage of everything these healthcare systems have to offer to ensure that they maximize their health, that they again, that they own that journey. That's the consumer experience.
[00:40:59] Ray Mina: Do you think that's gonna end up being like, everyone's on their, everyone's on their phone. Like it's only a matter of time before the interface with the phone is AI just asking it questions? I'll be surprised if we don't see that in a big way by, by the end of the year or end of next year, it, is it gonna be like that?
[00:41:17] Ray Mina: Do healthcare organizations have to move more towards like an app, you know, a productized type version of the interface? Do you think we're headed that way?
[00:41:27] Adrienne Woods: I think so. I think that that is one tool, you know, I think that that would be the same as other. I think it's a tool that
[00:41:32] Ray Mina: It's a feature.
[00:41:32] Adrienne Woods: If it's out there, it's feature.
[00:41:34] Adrienne Woods: If it's out there and other, that's the expectation, then we should offer that. I think that we just still need to remember that in healthcare, that provider is forming that trust and whether or not that's a virtual care or in-person care, I don't think in-person care is gonna go away.
[00:41:50] Adrienne Woods: I don't think the, you know, that bond between a consumer and that provider, I think is the most, you know, important part of the healthcare journey. And so our, our job is to provide however that consumer wants to talk to that provider. That's what we need to do. Whether or not it's an app, text messaging, virtual in person, I think that that's just, that's what I think.
[00:42:10] Ray Mina: You know, a lot of what I, because where we sit as a company, a lot of the work that we do is around the acquisition. Like help, help you turn the consumer into a patient. But you're touching on something that I'm curious, which is like, it, it's really about trust, like, where does lifetime value come from?
[00:42:27] Ray Mina: It's because I, I don't wanna give up my doctor, like this is where my relationship is with, and then I trust the rest of this services this brand can bring me because of that physician or physician's, how much of the marketer's job in, you know, the future is going to be around. 'cause that, that's where we really get deeper into the, the user experience side.
[00:42:51] Ray Mina: Like we get past the acquisition and I see CMOs now taking the, you know, Chief Consumer Officer role or, you know, get owning the experience part. How, how much of our jobs is gonna be about like that, like even just interactions and trust building with physicians?
[00:43:10] Adrienne Woods: I think it's gonna be a huge part. I mean, I think of it as the, the brand. The trust will influence the brand experience. The brand will influence the trust. You know, it, it will be another, another consumer circle in terms of the journey. But I think that the, the consumer has never had more, more choices than they do today. And in five years they will have never had more choices. Now this will be, this will look like all I had was A or B.
[00:43:35] Adrienne Woods: You know, that's what that will look like. And so I think that with every time that expands, that brand experience gets more important. And so while brand used to be kind of like you had a brand market, you know, the vice president of brand and they were just in charge of brand, the same way that everyone's in charge of that patient experience or consumer experience.
[00:43:53] Adrienne Woods: Everyone has a role in that brand experience too. And without the, you know, they, they have to go together. If you don't have a great brand experience, then you're not gonna have a great consumer experience. If the consumer experience is bad, they're not gonna trust your brand anymore. So I think that, yes, I think that we are gonna play a bigger role in the future in terms of the brand, even if you're not in marketing.
[00:44:15] Ray Mina: Last question I'll close with you is where do you think, because measurement is so near and dear to your heart. Where, you know, thinking forward through the rest of the decade, where is measurement going to get harder and where is it going to get clearer?
[00:44:31] Adrienne Woods: For us, I think it's going to get harder in terms of, you know, the patient journey. In terms of new patients and do they stay a patient? And if they, you know, if they come for this type of appointment, it's gonna be harder to keep them for this kind of appointment because of what you just said. There's so many options. There's so many things out there. Like if, you know, they had a primary, you know, the patient was a patient, established patient here.
[00:44:56] Adrienne Woods: But they moved and now there's not, they're far from their physicians. So rather than, you know, have another in-person physician, now they're going virtual care with, you know, some, maybe even a competitor of the healthcare system in terms of, then they have, you know, their pharmacy is different. They can do all of their things outside of that.
[00:45:12] Adrienne Woods: And that's okay. We want them to, you know, patients have choice. They can do what they want, but when they do need more complex care, getting them back to the healthcare system that offers that complex care. When they have those options, how do we do that? I think that's the, wow, that's a, a measurement that is hard, but also completely needed and will become table stakes because that's like the, it's as you said, the Amazons, the retails, I mean, everybody can, has these offerings, but I don't know any of them yet that can offer, you know, heart surgery at an outpatient facility down the street, you know?
[00:45:50] Ray Mina: Yeah, like I can get an eye exam from anywhere I can go. There's a lot of urgent care choices. But like, yeah, there's like, you know.
[00:45:57] Adrienne Woods: You can't eye surgery there.
[00:45:58] Ray Mina: No, no. Or if you, or if you have a serious, you know, God forbid you have a serious like affliction and you need to see a world class oncologist, like you're, you're, you're, you're probably going to a big system. That's a really great, that's a really, it becomes your, your system becomes tighter.
[00:46:12] Ray Mina: But the journey of that consumer through multiple system becomes incredibly, like, fragmented and hard to track.
[00:46:18] Adrienne Woods: Fragmented, longer, more complex and, and yeah, the unknowing are a lot 'cause they're not in the system for so long, you know?
[00:46:26] Ray Mina: Yeah. Well, thank you. I've really enjoyed it, and I hope you have some good time in the mountains.
[00:46:32] Adrienne Woods: Yes. Thank you. I hope you, I hope you get snow.
[00:46:35] Ray Mina: Pray for us. Pray for us. I'll send you, I'll send you pictures if we get a Christmas dump.
[00:46:39] Adrienne Woods: Wonderful.
[00:46:41] Producer: Today's episode is brought to you by Freshpaint. If you're a healthcare marketer under pressure to do more with less, Freshpaint helps you stretch fixed budgets, prove what's working, and protect the strategies that drive growth. Freshpaint brings performance and privacy together in one platform so you can see real outcomes across channels and double down where ROI is highest. With Freshpaint, privacy becomes your performance advantage. Turn better data into smarter decisions, find more high value patients, and keep your growth plans on track. Learn more at freshpaint.io.