Healthcare marketers launching a brand new product category treat "we can't measure it" as a blocker. Matthew Jackson, Director of Americas - Consumer Media & Digital at EssilorLuxottica, treats it as a puzzle worth solving. In this episode, Matthew shares what it's actually like to launch Stellest — the first FDA market-authorized spectacle lens to slow myopia progression in children — into a market that barely knows the condition exists. He breaks down how you build consumer demand when there's no search intent to capture, why the independent eyecare distribution model creates a measurement black hole, and how his team has stitched together foot traffic data, web signals, and long-tail attribution windows to give leadership a grounded picture of what's working.
Healthcare marketers launching a brand new product category treat "we can't measure it" as a blocker. Matthew Jackson, Director of Americas - Consumer Media & Digital at EssilorLuxottica, treats it as a puzzle worth solving. In this episode, Matthew shares what it's actually like to launch Stellest — the first FDA market-authorized spectacle lens to slow myopia progression in children — into a market that barely knows the condition exists. He breaks down how you build consumer demand when there's no search intent to capture, why the independent eyecare distribution model creates a measurement black hole, and how his team has stitched together foot traffic data, web signals, and long-tail attribution windows to give leadership a grounded picture of what's working.
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⏱️ Episode Timestamps
*(03:37) - Myopia explained: why pediatric nearsightedness is surging and what parents need to know
*(11:00) - Launching Stellest: balancing consumer activation with independent practice distribution
*(16:43) - What happens when your customer becomes someone else's patient
*(25:00) - Building a 60-day attribution model from foot traffic data, store locator clicks, and "book now" button taps
*(29:03) - How CTV and digital audio evolved from impression machines into conversion channels for a zero-awareness brand
*(34:13) - The next frontier: measuring creator and influencer impact in a space where you can't track the sale
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💬 Quote
“ If it takes 30 days for someone to take action after being exposed to the media, and then it takes maybe another 30 days, we'll just say, to account for those sales. We're looking at a 60 day window of the return on our media investment. Trying to fill those gaps in with say, the store traffic piece, with understanding how people are visiting, when they're visiting, how long it's taking to visit, helps us then to continue to refine that modeling and the analysis we're doing to really understand. That's where it becomes a, Well, now we can give to leadership an expectation. It's a little bit more grounded in the data that we do have and then constantly trying to iterate and get more realistic, whether it's market testing, where we'll do a market with media on, or a different media mix than another, and start to look at ways that we can pull those levers to just really decrease that timeline.” – Matthew Jackson
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🔗 Links
Connect with Matthew Jackson on LinkedIn
Connect with Ray Mina on LinkedIn
Learn more about Caspian Studios
[00:00:00] Matthew Jackson: If it takes 30 days for someone to take action after being exposed to the, the media. And then it takes maybe another 30 days, we'll just say it to account for those sales. Um, you know, we're looking at a 60 day window of, uh, of the, the, the return on our media investment.
[00:00:17] Matthew Jackson: So trying to fill those gaps in with say, the store traffic piece. Um, with understanding, um, you know, how people are visiting when they're visiting, how long it's taking to visit helps us then to continue to refine that modeling and the analysis we're doing to really understand and, and, and that's where it becomes a well now we can give to leadership and expectation.
[00:00:38] Matthew Jackson: It's a little bit more grounded in the data that we do have and then constantly trying to iterate and, and. Get more realistic, whether it's market testing, where we'll do, you know, a market with media on, or a different media mix than another, and start to look at ways that we can pull those levers to uh, you know, just really decrease that timeline.
[00:00:57] Ray Mina: I think this is one of the most interesting topics that I've had on the podcast because we're gonna go beyond just talking about marketing campaigns, and I'm gonna learn a lot about Myopia. Pediatric Myopia is surging, uh, and EssilorLuxottica, a brand you probably do know, and I'm gonna ask Matt to tell you why.
[00:01:14] Ray Mina: You know this brand has a bit of a first mover advantage here, and as in all things that we talk about in marketing rounds, marketing is complex. It's not super easy sometimes to. Stitch together this funnel and this strategy and Matt's success depends on driving patients into independent practices and proving the impact, but all facing imperfect attribution. Uh, my guest is Matt Jackson, who's the Director of Americas of Consumer Media and Digital at EssilorLuxottica. Matt, thanks for joining me on Marketing Rounds.
[00:01:49] Matthew Jackson: Yeah. Appreciate it Ray. It's uh. It's really good. I like watching, uh, the series and uh, so it's fun to be on it.
[00:01:56] Ray Mina: I'm, I'm stoked to have you on, like I met you in person at one of our house call events for the first time. I guess we're talking nine months ago now, and just have always really appreciated the complexity of. The things you try to do. And I think that's really relevant to our audience because healthcare is, is way more complex than selling a pair of shoes or, or, you know, buying a t-shirt from a consumer experience.
[00:02:16] Ray Mina: But we do need to figure out how do we get that attribution and how do we, you know, drive the impact and prove it. Um, Otica like when I, when I, I, I actually knew the brand, but like, when I've talked to people about it, they're like, what's SL exciting? I'm like, you know, this brand.
[00:02:32] Ray Mina: Tell, tell people why they should know the brand.
[00:02:34] Ray Mina: SL Luxottica.
[00:02:36] Matthew Jackson: Yeah, of course. It's, uh, look, it's a, it's a, it's a, one of those brands, uh, those companies that, uh, the biggest companies you've never heard of kind of things.
[00:02:44] Matthew Jackson: Um, a lot of times people ask, and I say, ES a little otica, and they say, I'm sorry, what was that? Uh, it sounds, you know, bless you, uh, sometimes, you know.
[00:02:52] Matthew Jackson: Um, but it, it's a, it's a, it's a worldwide. Um, a manufacturer and a distributor of all things eyecare. Um, we span across, uh, retail, uh, with brands like, uh, a LensCrafters and Pearl Vision and Sunglass Hut, um, through all, uh, of the, you know, major players, some of the most premium and, and and powerful brands in eyewear and fashion.
[00:03:15] Matthew Jackson: Um, like RayBan, uh, and Oakley and, uh, Oliver Peoples and Versace. And, and the list goes on and on. Um, where I sit. Is, uh, actually over on the more medical side within our eyeglass lenses brands. So these are, um, generally prescription lens products, uh, brands for progressive lenses, um, single vision lenses.
[00:03:37] Matthew Jackson: Um, obviously now lenses to, um, uh, work on the condition of myopia, which as you mentioned, Ray is, uh, is becoming a. Quite the pandemic, um, in, in our country and across the world. Um, but we have, uh, you know, many other, uh, organizations and, and businesses within our umbrella. Um, but it's a, uh, it's quite a, a massive organization.
[00:03:57] Matthew Jackson: But we are all a part of an organization that is bringing a better quality of life to individuals through their vision. Um, so much of what we, uh, consume, whether it's fun media, whether it's uh, movies, tv, whether it's, uh, sports, uh, just your day-to-day life getting around so much of that is, um, involved, uh, with your eyes and, and how you see the world.
[00:04:18] Matthew Jackson: And so making certain that people have access to the care they need. To the, the, the technology to the, uh, latest innovations in these products is, is core to our belief systems. So, um, it's something that, that I even personally feel very strongly about having worn glasses or contact lenses for. Too many years to even count.
[00:04:36] Matthew Jackson: I don't wanna mention it here, 'cause then people will think I'm, I'm older than I look. But, uh, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's quite a, uh, quite a big place. But it's really, uh, an exciting opportunity for us to bring something that is relatively unknown, um, to the consumer. And it's, uh, presents a, a challenge on a daily basis, uh, to do this.
[00:04:53] Matthew Jackson: Two categories that maybe are, are so low awareness that you're basically building a category while you're also trying to build a brand that, um, presents a, a, a new kind of challenge that's not just a, a pair of sneakers or a, or a t-shirt as you mentioned. Right.
[00:05:07] Ray Mina: My wife is a pediatric nurse at at UCSF in San Francisco, and so at the dinner table, I don't know anything. She knows everything, and I feel like this is my one opportunity to have dinner tonight where I can educate her on pediatric myopia. why is there a surge here? Like, what's, what's going on?
[00:05:24] Matthew Jackson: there are a number of reasons. Uh, some of it is, uh, behavioral. Um, there's, uh, some of it's just, uh, um. A little bit more observation and, and understanding that children that had suffered through this, you know, maybe went untreated for so long. Uh, like many conditions that seem to be surging nowadays.
[00:05:43] Matthew Jackson: Sometimes it was just, it was there, it was just never really, um, known. But, um, the, the condition of myopia and I'll, I'll, uh, you know. Try to be super simple on this one for sure. But, uh, essentially it is the way that, uh, your eye develops, um, uh, as you're growing. And it, uh, you know, everyone knows your eyeball and your mind.
[00:06:05] Matthew Jackson: You see it. You go, oh, it's just a little like a basketball. Um, well, when myopia, uh, uh, affects a child as they're developing the eye doesn't necessarily grow in a spherical. Shape like it's supposed to. It's more football shaped a little bit. Um, and some of that has to do with genetics. There's a, a good portion of it that has to do with genetics.
[00:06:26] Matthew Jackson: Some of it's behavioral where, uh, near focused behaviors, um, like reading and coloring and being inside all day and not using your distance vision, um, kind of conditions your eye to, to not quite, uh. Uh, grow and adapt to the way it, it needs to. So, um, when that happens, uh, for anyone that knows about optics and the, the way the eye works, the, the light of everything you see is, is light coming in.
[00:06:50] Matthew Jackson: Um. It, uh, focuses the lens of your eye, focuses that light on the back of your eye, on your retina. Well, if your eye is a little bit odd shaped, it's not going to focus in the right position. Um, and so it's not gonna hit the retina the way it needs to be in sharp, clear focus. And so everything's gonna be a bit fuzzy.
[00:07:10] Matthew Jackson: Uh, for, uh, for the, the person. So, you know, this comes on, uh, pretty early in, in many kids. And so as they develop, they start to experience these symptoms of, you know, maybe not being able to see the, the, the board in school or the teacher presenting in in class. They can't see it as well. And for an individual, they tend to think.
[00:07:31] Matthew Jackson: It is just how everyone sees. They don't necessarily know, right? 'cause they're, they're a child and they can't express that they have something different going on. So, um, the, the, this condition, um, uh, of myopia and the, the fact that the rates are, are increasing is something that, uh, from an awareness standpoint, from just a, an overall education standpoint is, uh, a big challenge to address, you know, step one.
[00:07:55] Matthew Jackson: And so obviously the industry, the, um, um, ophthalmologists and opticians and, and optometrists that are, uh, across the country are, um, you know, always aware when they have a, a visit from a child to, to explore this as a, as an issue for them potentially, but. Again, there's just, you know, if a child hasn't brought it to the attention of their parent, you know, they're gonna, they're not going to walk into the eye doctor on their own.
[00:08:17] Matthew Jackson: Um, so, um, it, it takes observance, uh, from a parent's perspective. Um, uh, you know, you have pediatric, uh, nurses and, and pediatricians across the country that are also doing during routine, um, visits. They're, they're asking certain questions and, and, you know, calling this out and, and, and. Exploring it for the child.
[00:08:35] Matthew Jackson: Um, even school nurses are, uh, uh, in teachers in, in elementary school level are, are pretty critical to this kind of movement of making certain that, uh, there's a, there's just a, a consideration for kids and how they use their vision because it will present itself in things like bad grades or poor performance in school.
[00:08:53] Matthew Jackson: And, uh, you know, are you cutting up in class? Uh, is maybe because they can't. Focus on the content. So they're, they're just trying to find other avenues to do things. So, um, that's the type of messaging and the type of, uh, communication we're trying to get out to, um, you know, parents across the country to, um, to make sure that they're, you know, considerate of the, the child, the child's vision.
[00:09:13] Matthew Jackson: And, and then, then they need to know from there, what do I do about it? Right. What's my, what's my next steps? Um, so yeah, myopia is a, it's a, it's a, again, you know, I go back to just this idea of us making sure that we're. As a company, as an organization, and, and, and as our brands, um, we're, we're speaking to people in a way that they know that there's an opportunity for them to live, uh, their best life by, uh, by, uh, using our products and, and, and taking care of these needs.
[00:09:42] Ray Mina: what's the name of the brand of the brand with Ms. Oil? Luxottica.
[00:09:45] Matthew Jackson: it is called Stellest, um, and it is the, um, the first and only of its kind, the spectacle lens that goes in a pair of eyeglasses, um, that, that treats this condition of myopia slows the progression of myopia in children so that they can, um, you know, not end up through their growing years.
[00:10:05] Matthew Jackson: Getting worse and worse and worse to where when they become an adult now they just have, uh, incredibly poor vision and it leads to many other complications and problems, you know, later in life. So, uh, Stellest’s lenses, um, they just, uh, were FDA market authorized for us to use in the US back in, uh, late September, October, and it became available.
[00:10:22] Matthew Jackson: And, um, we've seen, uh, a lot of passion from the. Optometrists and, and, uh, the, the optical community across the country, which has been phenomenal to, to hear. Um, so now it's, you know, it's onto the, the, the consumer onto the potential patient to make sure that they have the awareness and the visibility here that they can, uh, make those right informed decisions for their kids.
[00:10:44] Ray Mina: This is one of the things I love most about my four years at Fresh Pain is that marketing and healthcare really, really matters. Like you, you have an opportunity to change. Lot of people like us later on in life will look back and be like, thankful for this brand, because it changes their outcome and changes the shape of their life. Uh, shifting a little bit to the marketing lens, like it's a business and Otica also wants to take advantage of this first mover advantage and, and make sure that you create awareness and traction in the market. How, how was the launch from a marketing perspective? How was the launch of Stellest framed internally?
[00:11:20] Matthew Jackson: Well, so when the authorization came through, obviously prior to that, we had been prepping for, uh, a number of years knowing that this innovation was right on the horizon. Um, you know, laying the groundwork through the community of eye doctors across the country. To have, uh, you know, myopia kind of practice procedures and protocols in their office.
[00:11:41] Matthew Jackson: Um, and these things have been in, you know, years in the making. Um, once this brand became available to us, there was of course a decision on how rapidly do we try to expand into the consumer space. But also we are needing to make sure that the distribution is available in the market. Um, we have thousands of independent eyecare practices across the country.
[00:12:07] Matthew Jackson: Um, uh, these are all independent businesses. They have their own structure, their own needs, their own, uh, ways of doing things. Um, they're all, uh, not all of them, but so many of them are our customers. They, uh, purchase our other. Prescription lens products, uh, through us. So, um, making sure that that groundwork was in place, that technical setups in the background for processing orders electronically from the individual location to one of our processing labs, routing the jobs.
[00:12:39] Matthew Jackson: All of those things had to be, uh, you know, in place. Um, you know, before we really started pushing consumers to the doors. Um. So there was a, a, you know, lot of discussion between how rapidly we try to take advantage of this first position, um, knowing that, you know, obviously there are competitors across, uh, the, the world that'd be ready to, uh, to move right in.
[00:13:03] Matthew Jackson: So, uh, but balancing that with, um, this distribution angle and the, the sort of B2B marketing to get this product in place, um, it, it, you know, if it's such a, a bad experience, if we. Actually activate a consumer who's totally interested and ready to go, and they enter a door that doesn't have the product.
[00:13:24] Matthew Jackson: It's not, uh, not ideal. Um, so we did a lot of the B2B work. During that first couple of months, um, um, we were talking the, the medical affairs team and, and, and our, our marketing teams did amazing jobs. Um, our, uh, entire account, uh, executive organization was on the ground visiting doctors, having meetings, explaining the product, giving them every bit of information they could in order to, uh, prepare them so that then I can come in.
[00:13:52] Matthew Jackson: And do the work that, uh, my team does and, uh, and really get those consumers excited about it. Get them to understand it and, and as rapidly as possible, start to get them in that decision path. Um, this is a, uh, a was a big effort. So that first few months, the, the consumer piece, the, the, the consumer marketing angle was, uh, very targeted.
[00:14:14] Matthew Jackson: To markets that we knew had, um, you know, early adoption of the category in the practices, uh, markets that we knew had also an overlay of, um, the population base that is in the need for this brand. And so we did some very targeted things through late Q4, um, uh, last year after the product was available to sort of get the markets ready there, uh, but also maintain a bit of balance between the distribution and the consumer activation.
[00:14:40] Matthew Jackson: And then flipping to this year. The goal is, uh, is, is, uh, you know, the success measures are very lofty. And so we have to, uh, we had to really hit the ground, uh, as, as fast as we could and, and get things activated, um, and, uh, just start to drive that demand. And that's been the, uh, the, the. Biggest challenge I've ever dealt with in this, uh, in this space, uh, over the years is really driving that demand rapidly for something that is so, uh, just phenomenally unknown to, uh, to a, a consumer to your average, uh, your average, uh, person, your average parent.
[00:15:17] Matthew Jackson: Um, it's, uh, it's the, the, the, the hardest hill to climb. I, I think I've ever seen.
[00:15:22] Ray Mina: a lot of what I've talked about is like a lot of healthcare is really, um, a lot of spend is tied up in intent channels, which are really like practical for many things. But what you just described is like. Something brand new and demand gen is the thing that, that needs to be like you, that's the weapon you need
[00:15:40] Ray Mina: in order to be successful. Um, I know, I know you mentioned to me, um, even in in house call Miami, when we were in person together, the ambitious goals, like very lofty goals, um, to achieve as a business. And I know you shared with me, um, how that's very daunting, especially given some of the structural constraints around your ability to. Connect the dots. I, I,
[00:16:03] Ray Mina: I would love it if you maybe spend, you mentioned
[00:16:06] Ray Mina: one of them, which is like, you don't fulfill, it's being fulfilled through some independent, I've been to some of these places for sure. Um, walk me through a little bit about that ambition tied to structural constraints and like, what are some of the, what are the, some of the challenges that you're having
[00:16:21] Ray Mina: to navigate?
[00:16:22] Matthew Jackson: Yeah. Um, so, so many of the healthcare brands that I know you guys work with, um, uh, and that are out there from a marketing perspective, you know, if I'm, um. Selling a product through an e-commerce platform. If I'm a wellness company and I sell, uh, a vitamin, uh, something like this, right? I, I have that direct to consumer pathway.
[00:16:42] Matthew Jackson: I know who's adding things to a cart. I know who's placing the order. If they didn't place the order, I can absolutely email them, text them, you know. Put them in a retargeting, uh, campaign and social, I can do all of those things. Um, when you're in this actual, you know, medical space, um, obviously even if you're trying to bring them to your own hospital network, you still have all of these limitations.
[00:17:07] Matthew Jackson: Um, and then you take that, the step furthers like many pharmaceutical brands and things wear. I don't actually own any of the practices. Um, these are independent eye care providers. I'm a, a, you know, a seller to them. I'm a vendor in that sense. And so, um, you know, to, to really get visibility into the consumers that we are activating and building intent.
[00:17:31] Matthew Jackson: But once I hand that consumer off and they become a patient of Dr. Tim. I, that's invisible to me. Uh, you know, I have, I have zero visibility into what's happening there. Um, from an exam standpoint, from a transaction standpoint, I've, I have nothing. And so that's, uh, just monumentous of, I can show all of the brand lift I want.
[00:17:53] Matthew Jackson: I can show all of the media metrics that make me happy, but at the end of the day, I. It's hard to find the visibility to even determine if those media metrics that we know work in a CPG space or in a retail space, are they working in this space as well? It's, it's just the, um, you know, the game that you have to play and then you couple that with the fact that the, the decision cycle.
[00:18:19] Matthew Jackson: And a lot of healthcare decisions is quite long. Um, it takes a lot of effort to get someone off the couch and to go do the thing that you want them to do. 'cause it's just not easy. Booking an appointment, not super easy. Finding time in the calendar, taking off work, uh, wait for the kid to be out of school if this is the, the case here.
[00:18:38] Matthew Jackson: So those decision cycles take a long time, and it's not just going and grabbing something off the shelf because it's, you know, piqued your interest or. Adding it to your cart. Um, it's, it's a very different, uh, you know, life cycle here. Um, repurchase cycles are also very long, um, in our space. This, this the, you know, think about yourself.
[00:18:58] Matthew Jackson: How often do you even visit the eye doctor? Do you go once a year like you're supposed to? I mean, I
[00:19:05] Ray Mina: Almost never.
[00:19:06] Matthew Jackson: yeah. Um, so that's take one is everyone needs to go get their eyes done, uh, right now. And then, uh, you know, step two is, is in general you don't necessarily have prescription change often enough, or for whatever reason, they're not purchasing even a pair of glasses at every.
[00:19:24] Matthew Jackson: Visit, it's maybe every two years that they're repurchasing. Um, and so that kind of cycle, uh, uh, of revenue versus the advertising functions and the investments that we're spending in media to get that to pay off becomes such a long tail approach that oftentimes the business has the pressure of meeting those results today.
[00:19:48] Matthew Jackson: And so you couple those different pieces together. Proving out something that from a media, you know, on paper, the media plan, the media performance, everything is just firing like it's supposed to be. But then maybe on the other end you're going, well, why aren't we seeing the massive return on sales at the same time that we would expect in a different sort of scenario or different environment?
[00:20:12] Matthew Jackson: That's the, that's the crux of it, that's the pressure, uh, on a daily basis is to try to. Piece those things together because we believe very strongly in the media plan that we've built, the way we're going about it, the way we're activating consumers, it's just really making certain that we're connecting the dots to the sales results at the end of the day.
[00:20:30] Matthew Jackson: Um, uh, and to the, you know, the jobs process through the labs, how rapidly they're coming in. Are we, you know, gaining new. Into the mix, or are we just, you know, talking to the same, maybe the same patients again? Um, getting those pieces together is the, is the biggest, um, effort in the day. Putting together a cool media plan.
[00:20:52] Matthew Jackson: We're pretty good at that. But
[00:20:53] Matthew Jackson: really, really digging in and connecting the dots. That's the, that's the, the tough part.
[00:20:58] Ray Mina: I mean, to all of our friends who are in consumer marketing, whether you're in healthcare or not, like if you can draw a direct line to, you know, sign up for this subscription or sign up for this blood panel. It's hard as it is, but like imagine if you can't even see the finish line. And that's exactly what Matt's talking
[00:21:14] Ray Mina: about in that context, because I mean, you and I have geeked out on this before is like, it doesn't really matter.
[00:21:20] Ray Mina: You're still gonna have to figure out, even if it's imperfect, some way to create attribution. What are, what are some of the key things? What are some of the key metrics that you are. Leveraging with your team to try to get you that signal that you need so that you can kind of continue to reinforce the leadership and to yourselves that this, this strategy is having the impact you
[00:21:40] Ray Mina: desire.
[00:21:41] Matthew Jackson: since we don't have that, you know, kind of true conversion data, we don't have that information on the, the point of sale.
[00:21:48] Matthew Jackson: Um, what we do are. Try to find little checkpoints along the way. Um, you know, everybody calls 'em lead indicators, lag indicators, signals, intent, signals, whatever. So, um, you know, from a, a media standpoint, you know, we do all the, the normal kind of brand lift studies and, uh, and these kind of things just to keep a pulse check on how the, the creative is performing, how the activations are performing, that we are getting that.
[00:22:14] Matthew Jackson: Um, you know, that view from the consumer standpoint that they are really, you know, at least absorbing the, the, the ad unit was, uh, was available. They know they've seen it, which is great. Um, from there we go down even further. Um, you know, we, we drive the traffic directly through our uh, essilor.com site.
[00:22:33] Matthew Jackson: Which has a, you know, information about our brands, but also a, a store locator, uh, location list of the eyecare practices across the country that are distributors of our brands. Um, so, you know, we monitor that, you know, all the traffic flow through the site. Where it's coming from, what's pulling it there, what the users are doing, um, visiting the, the locator, putting in their zip code or, or using the, the, the location services to find a list of practices near them.
[00:23:00] Matthew Jackson: And then of course there are actions that they can take from there. Um, there's a phone number button, right click to call, right. They, they phone the practice and, and try to book an exam. There's a book now button. So if they wanna book an appointment,
[00:23:12] Matthew Jackson: um, online, many practices have this service available.
[00:23:16] Matthew Jackson: Um, in our case, we don't own the booking solution, so they click the button and then it takes them offsite to whatever the practices booking platform is. So again, right there, the visibility is cut off. So that's as far down the funnel from a clicks standpoint as I can get, is down to the website where someone has performed a search and engaged with.
[00:23:38] Matthew Jackson: Some of these actions they can do. Um, of course every bit of that we use, um, when it's, uh, obviously consented, uh, to make sure that we are super privacy focused in that case even. Um, but uh, every, everything that we can use there to build lookalikes, to build retargeting, to build any of the, you know, traditional sort of media vehicles that we have for optimization, we absolutely leverage.
[00:24:03] Matthew Jackson: Um, now after that, because I don't know where. Anybody's going. Um, I had, we had, historically, we built a bunch of models. We've done some, you know, plenty of analysis. We're always analyzing stuff, um, in order to try to really suss out how many of those clicks does it take get to the end game. And so we're, we're kind of constantly looking at those correlations between the actions that we.
[00:24:31] Matthew Jackson: Perceive as the indicator of of success and then ultimately what the, the success is. But like I mentioned, those, those windows can be pretty long.
[00:24:39] Matthew Jackson: but we've partnered with, uh, a number of different, uh, uh, services platforms, uh, out there. Um, foot traffic analysis is one that we find incredibly valuable because we can then, you know, have it, uh, measured and modeled.
[00:24:54] Matthew Jackson: Against all of the locations that we are supporting, um, at, whether it's the kind of company wide, right from, from my brands, you know, any of the practices that sell our products or the subsets that sell, say Stellest, right? Um, in this case, we can then overlay that foot traffic data with the other signals that we have and look at how many of the practices, um, were visited during that period by.
[00:25:19] Matthew Jackson: Consumers that are in the panel on these services. Um, but also look at incremental lift. Visit lift is is massive 'cause you're not gonna be able to get this product if you don't go to the eye doctor. Um, and so the visit lift, uh, and incrementality there is really huge 'cause that's an indicator that.
[00:25:37] Matthew Jackson: People are taking action as a result of our, our media presence. Um, and then we can, uh, you know, that's obviously Lyft compared to if people would've just gone to the eye doctor without, um, without anything. Uh, we, uh, you know, right now we're still relatively early days. It's only been a few months since the, the media has started and it's definitely on a.
[00:25:57] Matthew Jackson: On a, uh, trajectory to, to continue to ramp up as the business continues to ramp up behind it, right? Um, and the distribution. So, um, already seeing, you know, significant lift moving up, uh, into the upper single digits and into the, um, uh, into the double digits of pr, uh, traffic driving lift and, and visit rate lift to our location.
[00:26:17] Matthew Jackson: So, you know, those are the kind of things that are great signals for us. But then even still, they visited, we don't necessarily know if the person needed. The glasses that day. Um, I'm glad they went Well, should check too. Um, the, uh, the second thing though is even if they did need them and they placed their order that day at the doctor, well there's still that whole kind of routing process and then getting the job back, um, which takes, you know, a week or two, um, depending on the prescription and other circumstances, it, uh, you know, so by the time we start to account for that sales data.
[00:26:52] Matthew Jackson: Now we're a few weeks down the road,
[00:26:55] Matthew Jackson: so, um, you know, if it takes. 30 days for someone to take action after being exposed to the, the media. And then it takes maybe another 30 days, we'll just say it to account for those sales. Um, you know, we're looking at a 60 day window of, uh, of the, the, the return on our media investment.
[00:27:14] Matthew Jackson: So trying to fill those gaps in with say, the store traffic. Piece. Um, with understanding, um, you know, how people are visiting when they're visiting, how long it's taking to visit helps us then to continue to refine that modeling and the analysis we're doing to really understand and, and, and that's where it becomes a well now we can give to leadership and expectation.
[00:27:34] Matthew Jackson: It's a little bit more grounded in the data that we do have and then constantly trying to iterate and, and. Get more realistic, whether it's market testing, where we'll do, you know, a market with media on, or a different media mix than another, and start to look at ways that we can pull those levers to uh, you know, just really decrease that timeline.
[00:27:53] Ray Mina: This is a great, like I talk, we talk to a lot of marketing leaders. This is a great example of like. Ideally, Matt can just draw a line between the ad campaign, spend down to the fulfillment, like directly without human intervention. And, and that's hard to do, but you found another way with a series of step points along the way that is not perfect, but it does start to give you a, a view into like how things are impacted.
[00:28:18] Ray Mina: So like kudos to you for just being creative across multiple dimensions. I would love to spend a few minutes to talk about, 'cause the other thing you said, which is near and dear to my heart, which is healthcare has to iterate beyond intent channels because intent is really great when the intent exists, but there are other jobs that we have as marketers, and you have the job of going, creating demand quickly for a brand new solution for your customer base that needs education. Walk me through a little bit about your, you know, demand strategy outside of. Beyond Google, because I know Google's part of it, but like what are the other weapons that you have in that strategy to like create awareness for people and educate them and then hopefully move them, move them eventually to that visit?
[00:29:01] Matthew Jackson: Historically, you know, everyone has just treated, uh, our friends at Google as that's the demand driver. Everything else is awareness. Everything else is consideration. But Google's got the lock on that because the intention of consumers, all of us has been, I'm gonna go through Google and that's how I'm gonna find the answer.
[00:29:20] Matthew Jackson: Um, and it's still there. It's not going away,
[00:29:22] Matthew Jackson: uh, quickly, but, Many of the advertising platforms that are available today, many of the places, the, the spaces where we exist in front of a consumer have gotten really much better at this, um, uh, ability to bring conversion into their, their mix. Um, I'm talking about, uh, things like connected television.
[00:29:47] Matthew Jackson: Uh, digital audio. These spaces have gotten really good now at building, um, uh, or shaping a media plan around something that's much more action oriented. That's also due to our behavior, right? We search for things in different places. We find those actionable things in different places. Um, you know, people are shopping more on social than they are shopping at store websites.
[00:30:13] Matthew Jackson: You know, they're, they're, they're, you know, a lot of people are using various other places to find information instead of just going straight to a search engine. Um, obviously the, you know, elephant in the room is, is the, the LLMs and all of the various iterations and variations of how people are finding that information nowadays.
[00:30:33] Matthew Jackson: So, um, for us in those spaces we do test into and take advantage of the opportunities to build a campaign in a digital audio space, but that's actually geared towards conversion rather than just. You know, blasting out a million impressions and, and, and running it that way. Um, and it's helped us to find those places where we can absolutely see, um, the, the, the change in those other indicators that we have along the path, whether it's foot traffic, whether it's, you know, even web visits and, and web activity.
[00:31:06] Matthew Jackson: Um, just more Qualified visits. Granted, you're, you're reaching in the campaigns a much smaller audience. Because that's the, that's the goal, right? I wanna make sure that I'm hitting only the people that I know are going to take action. And these campaigns are designed to do that. And the platforms have gotten quite good at helping us as, as marketers, as advertisers, to shape those, those campaigns together.
[00:31:32] Matthew Jackson: They've, uh, you know, brought in the data, they brought in the services, they brought in the, the tech stack behind the scenes with whether it's pixeling a site and feeding data back and these kinds of things that were just not options.
[00:31:44] Matthew Jackson: Three or four or five years ago, they just weren't there. You turned on television or you ran a, uh, a spot on a, a streamer and, and, and, you know, the early streamer, uh, kind of scenarios and you just hope for the best.
[00:31:56] Matthew Jackson: Um, but now you, you know, everybody's gotten on board because we, as, as marketers and advertisers have, have pushed into this. We have said, look. We like these things. We like streaming, we like video, we like content. 'cause it's really, um, engaging for the, the consumer and the, the purchaser. But we need to be able to measure it.
[00:32:16] Matthew Jackson: We need to be able to drive the actions because just throwing out commercials is not the answer anymore. So they've gotten really. Good at it. There are other partners that have gotten good at integrating this kind of thing and helping you to use ai, especially to build audiences and, and, you know, construct contextual targeting and all of these fun things, um, based on the volume of data that they can consume, um, has, has helped quite a bit to take.
[00:32:41] Matthew Jackson: The majority of our media mix, in fact, and pull it a lot further down. Not, you know, not gonna replace all that demand gen stuff that Google's still really good at it, but helping to really pull it much further down and make it a lot more actionable and, and goal oriented instead of just really just pushing awareness every day.
[00:33:03] Ray Mina: I love that. Yeah, it's part one. Part you mentioned is like. Who is my audience? Where, where, where is my message going to land? The strongest is like, part one is so important and, and there's so many tools to do that today. And then part two is the advancing in technology where things like CTV and audio aren't just brand awareness.
[00:33:21] Ray Mina: They're things to educate that audience that you can land with and move them to success. And that's where things like Google help. They help capture that intent. They help like get it across the line. Um, not, not singularly, but like
[00:33:36] Ray Mina: LLMs Google. Great, great experience. Like once you're ready to engage with one of your locations, um,
[00:33:42] Ray Mina: I lo I, I love that approach. I guess the question for you is like, this is crystal ball time. I know I hate these questions myself, but I I've gotta ask it because you're thinking ahead. You're gonna be in a different spot in six months than you are today, and a year from now, you're gonna be in a different spot from that. But like, if we fast forward a year or two from now, what does your fully mature marketing and measurement setup look like for Stellest?
[00:34:09] Matthew Jackson: The next phase, um, I think especially for a brand like Stellest, um, to really gain adoption. Within the consumer space, you know, understanding, but also just this, this sort of inside feeling about a brand.
[00:34:24] Matthew Jackson: Um, it, it needs to have this, this element of, of trustworthiness. It needs to have this element of a shared sort of, um, perception among their peers.
[00:34:35] Matthew Jackson: And it this kind of understanding the way a consumer brand does, um. So from, from my perspective and from our team in our organization, um, within the, the verticals of social and PR and media, we are all thinking towards how can we best leverage and continue to, but maybe expand our, uh, work with creators, with influencers, with,
[00:34:59] Matthew Jackson: um, you know, partnerships and sponsorships and these kind of things, but also do it in a way.
[00:35:05] Matthew Jackson: That is measurable, the way we're trying to measure and, and activate a digital audio ad that we have evolved to the point where we can do so. Uh, that's another kind of, uh, you know, pretty emerging place right now is this creator space. Obviously everybody knows of influencers and creators and they're all this, uh, the place, but getting your organization to buy into those kinds of things is really tough because.
[00:35:28] Matthew Jackson: Well, I don't know how many, you know, if they get 30 views on a, a, a page or a million views on a, a, a post I, I, what, what good is that? Um, that's where this ecosystem and creator space is, is really, um, I'm, I'm seeing it, you know, in, in new startups and new, uh, platforms coming along every day. That help you shop creators and find creators and, uh, and then you extend that beyond just a creator or an influencer, but to another brand, uh, that you would partner or sponsor with.
[00:35:56] Matthew Jackson: Um, you know, how are you measuring this? Just, you know, if it's just a, a logo slab, um, or is it something bigger and more ingrained and, and in the partnership that has a, a deeper meaning that. Resonates. And you can, you know, that trustworthiness or that responsiveness to this brand can then help you get into that, uh, that family and into those, the, the, the, the sight line of those parents so that they can then, of course take action.
[00:36:22] Matthew Jackson: But, but measuring those things, finding the comparisons because you know, a lot of times you're speaking to folks in whether it's, uh, the rest of your marketing team, whether it's outside into the sales organization to other. Departments and other, uh, areas, you know, they're, they're not in this necessarily every day.
[00:36:40] Matthew Jackson: Like we are. So the words we're saying, you know, they, they have to put context to them and their context may be tv, billboards, uh, you know, print media, these kinds of things. And so when you say, well, we're gonna have this activation here, or we're gonna have this creator build some content for us, and.
[00:36:57] Matthew Jackson: Having to pull that together and make sense of it in just a, a single 30 minute meeting or on a, a slide deck you shared with them is they're gonna say, why are we doing that? Doesn't make any sense. So that's the big place I think in the next, you know, six months to a year is really locking in this element of.
[00:37:12] Matthew Jackson: This creators and influencers in, in our space. Right? Again, in, in a, a retail world, selling sneakers, I make a post with some celebrity that post gets a thousand links over to my, uh, store. They buy the shoes. The success,
[00:37:27] Matthew Jackson: right? Um, Yeah.
[00:37:28] Matthew Jackson: So simple. Uh, I'm jealous, but they, uh, in our space, it's, it's because we're.
[00:37:33] Matthew Jackson: You know, identifying creators and influencers and partnerships that help this education story as well as the brand story is, is critical. But measuring that and making sure that we are seeing the action after the fact, um, uh, is, is the the hard part that we're gonna have to overcome next.
[00:37:52] Ray Mina: You have such a product mindset, which is like you gotta, you know, before you build products, you need to figure out how you're gonna actually measure the. Product adoption and the product benefits. So I love that you're ahead of that. Um, well, Matt, I really appreciate you doing marketing rounds with me today. I expected to learn a lot from you and I did on like, multiple dimensions and really appreciate you sharing it with us in our audience.
[00:38:14] Matthew Jackson: Thanks, Ray.
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